REBOL3 - !AltME (Discussion about AltME [web-public])

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4282GrahamStill eats posts9-Jan-10 18:24
4281PekrSunanda - thanks for posting the link, I forgot about those!9-Jan-10 9:04
4280Sunanda1.2.18 works fine from where I am. Let's hope it is a good sign for the future. Petr, we were asked for our top priorities some years ago....Let's hope too, that those requests are still on the work list: 8:49
4279Grahamwow ... over 1.5 years since last update9-Jan-10 6:39
4278Pekr 6:38
4277GrahamJust filesize limit??9-Jan-10 6:32
4276GrahamWhat are the improvements??9-Jan-10 6:32
4275PekrAltME updated to 1.2.18 .... you can now eg. set filesize transfer limit. Changelog states, AltME is going to be updated regularly now again. Maybe time to submit the most usefull proposal - add button to "mark everything read" (de-red button :-)9-Jan-10 6:22
4274PaulThanks Graham.7-Jan-10 2:17
4273GrahamDone.7-Jan-10 1:51
4272PaulCan someone please create an opportunity group again so I can post an opportunity.7-Jan-10 1:46
4271GrahamSeen similar issues before too4-Jan-10 19:14
4270GreggI forgot to post this. Yesterday, I got the following error message when disconnecting from this world:

Server reported error in unknown-request because of: Ýtatus

Yes, that first char in the last word is what it displayed.

4-Jan-10 19:08
4269SunandaPavel -- there's been some difficulties with some groups. Reichart is looking in to it. See [PrivateGroupsDiscussion] for a lot of commentary on the issues.3-Jan-10 13:16
4268Willok, that is a AltMe bug on OSX, when clicking the green button in the window title bar to max the window, prefs/window/maxed get set to true, clicking again won't update that variable.3-Jan-10 11:57
4267OldesPavel: I see it, but it's empty.3-Jan-10 11:44
4266WillI just deleted the prefs/window and all is well3-Jan-10 11:43
4265Willfound it.. in prefs/window , change: maxed: true to: maxed: none3-Jan-10 11:42
4264PavelGroup !Rebol3 is not visible for me (dissappeared) anybody else?3-Jan-10 11:32
4263HenrikThis is an old bug. Can't remember how to fix it, though...3-Jan-10 11:30
4262Willhas there been a silent upgrade to AltMe lately? since a week or two, when opening AltMe, its window will resize fullscreen and no way to resize it, it will keep resizing fullscreen.. OSX10.6.2 AltMe 1.2.173-Jan-10 11:08
4261PaulWould be cool if this message window also had a console like feature where I could use it to do some functions like a calculator or other limited functionality.2-Jan-10 23:29
4260GrahamIt's been like this intermittently for the last couple of days ...30-Dec-09 0:51
4259HenrikIt's totally stable here now.29-Dec-09 23:52
4258amacleodless 'internet busy' and more just real slow and no updates of worlds until clicked on.29-Dec-09 23:40
4257amacleodits real bad this time...and a little different than previous slowdowns..29-Dec-09 23:37
4256HenrikWe've seen this before. Usually it suddenly stops if Carl reboots the server or if the network reasserts itself. In the meantime we'll have to live with it for the 1-2 days it usually lasts.29-Dec-09 22:38
4255joannakBased on messages on Advocacy I would estimate that the problems started at 19:50 (+- 2 minutes) GMT, that´s almost 2 hours ago from the moment I´m writing this.29-Dec-09 21:46
4254joannakYep.. has been some time today. Busy, doing some update, Busy, losing some posts..29-Dec-09 21:34
4253HenrikAltME running like crap right now.29-Dec-09 21:27
4252HenrikUnfortunately no. It's a much requested feature.29-Dec-09 12:12
4251Endoin AltME I mean.29-Dec-09 12:09
4250Endois there a way to "mark all messages as read" in a list?29-Dec-09 12:08
4249amacleodGood to know, thanks29-Dec-09 1:10
4248Pekrbut if you start it from the panel, it should be OK ....29-Dec-09 1:09
4247Pekrexactly ... but as we know, it is not automatic. You MIGHT loose it, if you don't start it at least once in 10 days (imo even in -s mode)29-Dec-09 1:09
4246amacleodpink > ping29-Dec-09 1:08
4245amacleodSo let me get this clear in my head as I have the same problem with losing world names...if I start a world from the altme start console and leave it running it will be fine but if I start it with -s (as I do in a shortcut icon in my 'startup' programs menu (incase of a reboot) I will loose the world in 10 days as it is in server mode and does not pink safeworlds?29-Dec-09 1:07
4244Pekr2:00 am here ... now before I go to sleep, I need some good news, e.g. when: host kit will allow View (merge of DELECT and commands), Extensions will allow Devices / Callbacks, and when are we back to VID? :-) - so that we can start porting R3 to WM and Android :-)29-Dec-09 1:02
4243Grahamso paying the sum fixes it ...29-Dec-09 1:02
4242CarlYes, docs must be updated.29-Dec-09 1:01
4241CarlSo... very interesting. At least now we know the source of the problem..29-Dec-09 1:00
4240PekrI think that then docs should be corrected - few sentences would explain it clearly enough ...29-Dec-09 1:00
4239CarlWhen running AltME with -s, it runs like AltServe.... which never has to ping, because all AltServe worlds have permanently registered names.29-Dec-09 0:59
4238Pekroh my ... what a logic. If I knew it, I would either buy world names, or just run it the manual way. It surely was not obvious to me, but imo is not obvious to most users too ...29-Dec-09 0:59
4237CarlAh... I know.29-Dec-09 0:58
4236PekrThe question now is, why doesn't it "ping", when started from .cmd29-Dec-09 0:57
4235CarlYes, and that statement is true -- when world is started from AltME control panel.29-Dec-09 0:57
4234Pekrhmm, so now I understand it. I have to restart world at least once in 10 days, or it might loose registration? But my condition of "keep it running all the time" is met.29-Dec-09 0:57
4233PekrYou must start your world at least every 10 days (or keep it running all the time), or you will lose your world name. If that happens, nobody will be able to connect to your world, and someone else can take your world name. You can keep your world safe for a small fee.29-Dec-09 0:56
4232CarlI think the big problem is that for users it creates a mystery problem, that just looks bad.29-Dec-09 0:56
4231CarlOk, I will bring up this problem and it can be discussed.29-Dec-09 0:55
4230PekrDocs state, that world, if not used for 10 days, is freed. But it is not the case. The world is randomly freed even during its usage. The service is unreliable this way ...29-Dec-09 0:54
4229CarlI think the docs indicate script startup of free clients, not "free" servers.29-Dec-09 0:54
4228Pekryes, but it contradicts docs.29-Dec-09 0:54
4227CarlYes.29-Dec-09 0:54
4226GrahamLOL29-Dec-09 0:54
4225GrahamIt's a feature .. not a bug29-Dec-09 0:54
4224Pekrok, I restarted it "the old way". I wanted to have it in .cmd, to auto-start servers, when machine reboots ...29-Dec-09 0:53
4223CarlSafeworlds did not want to see people using or reselling AltME free product as a server. So, it does not initialize properly when used that way.29-Dec-09 0:53
4222Pekr"designed"? :-)29-Dec-09 0:53
4221CarlI think this was designed to sell AltServe products.29-Dec-09 0:52
4220Pekrso should I not start it via "start"? That sounds strange ... will turn the world off, and once again with old method ...29-Dec-09 0:52
4219Pekrhmm ....29-Dec-09 0:51
4218Carlping success! command 28-Dec-2009/16:49:20-8:00 [ {cmd: open data: ["vertuzo" 0]}] command 28-Dec-2009/16:50:27-8:00 [ {cmd: live data: ["vertuzo" 64#{kDj29-Dec-09 0:51
4217Pekrstart 29-Dec-2009/1:49:19+1:00 ["vertuzo" 5401 1.2.18 29-Dec-2009/1:49:19+1:00] wns 29-Dec-2009/1:49:19+1:00 ["open" "vertuzo" 5401] wns 29-Dec-2009/1:49:20+1:00 ["close" "vertuzo" lookup ok]29-Dec-09 0:50
4216Carltry starting it from the altme "Start a World" panel29-Dec-09 0:46
4215PekrI start it from Total Commander, running altme-vertuzo.cmd:

start altme.exe -s "Vertuzo" -p 5401

29-Dec-09 0:45
4214Pekrdebub file:

; AltME Debugging and Logging Options debug: 0 file: %log.txt events: [boot error note start halt wns wns-ping] echo: none net: none time: none

29-Dec-09 0:44
4213Carlalso, how do you start the world? (from an AltME or from an icon?)29-Dec-09 0:44
4212Pekrabove content, only two lines - I deled it ....29-Dec-09 0:44
4211Carlwhat shows in the vertuzo/debug file?29-Dec-09 0:43
4210Carlyes... but I am concerned because I started a new world here to confirm the debug settings, and it worked.29-Dec-09 0:42
4209Pekrat least the version number is now 1829-Dec-09 0:42
4208Pekrstill the same:

halt 29-Dec-2009/1:40:49+1:00 ["halted"] start 29-Dec-2009/1:40:54+1:00 ["vertuzo" 5401 1.2.18 29-Dec-2009/1:40:54+1:00]

29-Dec-09 0:41
4207PekrI will delete the log29-Dec-09 0:40
4206Pekryes, the same location as debug file itself ...29-Dec-09 0:40
4205Carlverify that log.txt is from altme/servers/vertuzo29-Dec-09 0:38
4204Pekrstill no detailed debug info ...29-Dec-09 0:37
4203Pekrstart 29-Dec-2009/1:36:39+1:00 ["vertuzo" 5401 1.2.18 29-Dec-2009/1:36:39+1:00]29-Dec-09 0:37
4202Carlstop all altme and servers, then install that new one.29-Dec-09 0:34 0:34
4200Pekrok ....29-Dec-09 0:31
4199CarlLet me upload a .18 version for you to try.29-Dec-09 0:31
4198Carlchecking...29-Dec-09 0:27
4197Pekrstart 29-Dec-2009/1:25:05+1:00 ["vertuzo" 5401 1.2.13 29-Dec-2009/1:25:05+1:00]29-Dec-09 0:26
4196Pekrthe same .exe size. The same version, the same behaviour, no logging ...29-Dec-09 0:26
4195Carlbrb29-Dec-09 0:22
4194CarlTry it.29-Dec-09 0:21
4193Pekrwebsite shows 1.2.15, is that correct?29-Dec-09 0:20
4192CarlDownload 1.2.18, and try again. This will tell us.29-Dec-09 0:19
4191CarlMaybe the bug is that the server does not apply the recent patches.29-Dec-09 0:18
4190Carlso, version number is different.29-Dec-09 0:17
4189Carlmy log.txt shows: start 28-Dec-2009/16:12:29-8:00 ["testtest" 5400 1.2.18 28-Dec-2009/16:12:29-8:00]29-Dec-09 0:17
4188CarlAh... very interesting...29-Dec-09 0:17
4187Pekrlog.txt shows no more detail though ...29-Dec-09 0:15
4186CarlSo, this indicates that it works (from here).29-Dec-09 0:15
4185Pekrstart 29-Dec-2009/1:12:59+1:00 ["vertuzo" 5401 1.2.13 29-Dec-2009/1:12:59+1:00]29-Dec-09 0:15
4184CarlWNS log shows: command 28-Dec-2009/16:12:30-8:00 [ {cmd: open data: ["testtest" 0]}] command 28-Dec-2009/16:13:31-8:00 [ {cmd: live data: ["testtest" 64#{OD...}]}]29-Dec-09 0:15
4183Pekrdebug rewritten, good sign ...29-Dec-09 0:14
4182Carllog.txt shows: ... wns 28-Dec-2009/16:12:29-8:00 ["open" "testtest" 5400] wns 28-Dec-2009/16:12:31-8:00 ["close" "testtest" lookup ok] wns-ping 28-Dec-2009/16:13:31-8:00 [open] wns-ping 28-Dec-2009/16:13:31-8:00 [lookup]29-Dec-09 0:13
4181CarlAfter startup, debug file is: ; AltME Debugging and Logging Options debug: 0 file: %log.txt events: [boot error note start halt wns wns-ping] echo: none net: none time: none29-Dec-09 0:12
4180Carlbtw, remove the debug file from your other dir, or your clients may log too much info29-Dec-09 0:11
4179Carlmove your debug file to the altme/servers/vertuzo directory, then restart the world29-Dec-09 0:11
4178Carlok, my mistake. Servers don't use the normal client prefs. Here are the steps...29-Dec-09 0:10
4177Carlverifying, 1 min29-Dec-09 0:06
4176Pekris that correct? Then I restarted one world - Vertuzo, port 540129-Dec-09 0:05
4175Pekraltme/prefs/debug (no suffix), added following line:

events: [boot error note start halt wns wns-ping]

29-Dec-09 0:05
4174Pekrnothing logged ...29-Dec-09 0:04
4173Carllook for line that begins with wns29-Dec-09 0:04
4172Carlyes29-Dec-09 0:03
4171Pekrservers/vertuzo/log.txt?29-Dec-09 0:03
4170Pekrbtw - debug file did not change ...29-Dec-09 0:02
4169Carllook at log file.29-Dec-09 0:02
4168PekrI try to look at netstat -an on that machine, but nothing obvious ....29-Dec-09 0:02
4167CarlIt's 5500 as documented.29-Dec-09 0:01
4166Carlwait... nevermind. That's for an experimental build.29-Dec-09 0:01
4165Carlyes.29-Dec-09 0:00
4164Pekroutgoing port 5502?28-Dec-09 23:59
4163CarlThe log does not show that the world started. So, there is a problem on port 5502.28-Dec-09 23:58
4162CarlI wonder how that is possible?28-Dec-09 23:58
4161PekrI can connect from remote client28-Dec-09 23:56
4160Pekryes, it is ...28-Dec-09 23:56
4159Carlis it running?28-Dec-09 23:56
4158Pekrsorry, vertuzo is 540128-Dec-09 23:55
4157Pekrdone - world Vertuzo restarted, Xidys runs the old way. Vertuzo runs on port 540228-Dec-09 23:53
4156Carlcorrect, remove that line.28-Dec-09 23:50
4155Carlbtw, altme will notice the debug file, and rewrite it with all debug fields28-Dec-09 23:50
4154Pekrso should I delete the debug line from prefs.txt?28-Dec-09 23:50
4153Carlrestart just one server28-Dec-09 23:49
4152Carlactually, it's: altme/prefs/debug (no suffix, but as a text file) Then, in that file:

events: [boot error ... above list ]

28-Dec-09 23:49
4151Pekrshould I restart my servers?28-Dec-09 23:49
4150Carlserver... but, wait a min...28-Dec-09 23:48
4149Pekron my client, or the server?28-Dec-09 23:47
4148Carlin altme/prefs/prefs.txt, add the line:

debug: [events: [boot error note start halt wns wns-ping]]

28-Dec-09 23:47
4147Carl1 min28-Dec-09 23:43
4146Pekrthe beacon - should be done by my client, or my server? I mean - I could install Wireshark, and filter for packets on port 5500, to see, if it "pings"28-Dec-09 23:41
4145Pekrhow do I add it?28-Dec-09 23:38
4144CarlAh... good idea. In the log config, add wns-ping monitoring.28-Dec-09 23:35
4143PekrIn the client log, I can see sometimes - wns 26-Oct-2009/9:28:23+1:00 ["find" "Vertuzo" lookup expired]28-Dec-09 23:34
4142PekrI also always wondered, why proxy does not work, if we have it available :-) (but that's different topic)28-Dec-09 23:34
4141Pekrwell, you might be lucky, because most of networks don't block outgoing connections ... but those who do, will not be able to get to the network.28-Dec-09 23:33
4140CarlThat is a suprise to me.... I thought it was 5500.28-Dec-09 23:30
4139Pekrso, how could it "not to ping" actually?28-Dec-09 23:29
4138CarlBTW, the port is 5502, not 5500.28-Dec-09 23:29
4137CarlOk, correct.28-Dec-09 23:28
4136CarlYes, live ping is just altme packet indicating server is running.28-Dec-09 23:28
4135Pekr208.127.222.20028-Dec-09 23:28
4134CarlTry this in REBOL: read dns://wns.altme.com28-Dec-09 23:27
4133Pekrany special ping or behaviour for - live ping? I hope not ... can't imagine how it could be blocked here ....28-Dec-09 23:26
4132PekrWhat does it mean - live ping? Is it Altme communication type of message?28-Dec-09 23:26
4131CarlThat means you have the exe .13, but patches to .17 -- that is fine.28-Dec-09 23:25
4130CarlMost of the log contains live pings... millions of them.... but not from you.28-Dec-09 23:25
4129PekrHmm, on server I seem to use 1.2(13) - info on splash screen, but then client shows 1.2.1728-Dec-09 23:25
4128CarlWhat concerns me is that I CAN see your cmd: open -- which is your world startup. But, there are no cmd: live pings.28-Dec-09 23:24
4127CarlWell... keep in mind that on your local network, it's a different IP. it appears.28-Dec-09 23:23
4126PekrIf it is not related, I would let it go, I never ever saw it once again. Not so worlds outages. Strange you can't see my IP logged?28-Dec-09 23:23
4125PekrWell, as I said, it just happened once. Me, nor my friend on their computers were able to connect. The situation was strange, as could see worlds both registered, and online ...28-Dec-09 23:22
4124PekrIIRC I selected "Follow TCP packet" in WireShark, maybe it could do some conversions, dunno. Then I did cut and copy ...28-Dec-09 23:21
4123CarlThat packet is not correct. "].cmd" ?28-Dec-09 23:21
4122Pekrno, no edit IIRC28-Dec-09 23:20
4121Pekranyway ... some food for thoughts. If you need any assistance, or anything special I could install on my side, I can help. Other tha that, not sure if you want to lose more of your time with it ...28-Dec-09 23:20
4120CarlIn the TCP packet above, did you edit that text?28-Dec-09 23:20
4119Pekrbut maybe it was a client problem, don't know. I had to let my worlds to expire and re-register ...28-Dec-09 23:19
4118Pekrmaybe it is somehow related ...28-Dec-09 23:18
4117PekrSubmitted: 23-Oct-2009/8:52:48-7:0028-Dec-09 23:18
4116PekrCarl - and here's what happened, but just once. I sent it to feedback - very special case:


after last outage, I am not able to connect to my worlds - Xidys, Vertuzo.

The client even does not try to connect, as I can't see any outgoing packets to IP of my world on particular port (Xidys:5402). AltME client says - "Xidys exists, but not-online". But - our worlds are online.

When I go to, the world seems to be online, and the site also is able to connect to it.

So I inspected TCP packets in Wireshark, and it states: "cmd: find data: ["Xidys" 0 4811897].cmd: lookup data: inactive ."

28-Dec-09 23:18
4115CarlAnd, yes it is true... we rebooted the server recently -- the reason your world was "sweeped".28-Dec-09 23:17
4114CarlWell, does not work like that. The log records the "raw" commands. So, it shows right now many hundreds of altme worlds "pinging" that they are "live". The fact that your world never shows "live" is a mystery.28-Dec-09 23:15
4113PekrMaybe you check logs, and maybe when you reboot server, you loose the logs? Because - more users reported at the same time the same problem.28-Dec-09 23:13
4112PekrCould you post a script/logic, which decides, if the world is or is not online for 10 days?28-Dec-09 23:12
4111PekrThat was also my motivation to not pay for the world names - yet. To find out, what's going on ...28-Dec-09 23:12
4110CarlI could make your world as permanent... but then, I'd not know about this possible bug.28-Dec-09 23:11
4109Carlexactly...28-Dec-09 23:11
4108PekrI am able to re-register my worlds in 10 minutes, no problem. But it would be nice, if our effort would lead to fix of some possible problem ....28-Dec-09 23:11
4107Pekrmaybe, I would have to search this group for my complaints :-)28-Dec-09 23:09
4106Carland 26-Oct28-Dec-09 23:09
4105Pekraround 11-Nov there was my other outage ...28-Dec-09 23:07
4104Carlscanning older logs... 1 min.28-Dec-09 23:05
4103Pekrthe strange "outage" happened 4-6 times in last 6 months ...28-Dec-09 23:02
4102Pekryes, that is my public IP, and that is IP my worlds are registered to ...28-Dec-09 23:02
4101Carl193.85.151.228-Dec-09 23:01
4100Carlah, that's when you checked it from the website.28-Dec-09 23:00
4099Carlwait a min.... 208....28-Dec-09 23:00
4098Pekrour Xidys wifi network has C subnet of 193.85.151.*28-Dec-09 22:59
4097Pekr212 is walmark - when I access it from my work28-Dec-09 22:58
4096Carl208.127.222.20028-Dec-09 22:57
4095Carl212.71.148.22828-Dec-09 22:57
4094CarlI was wondering about that.28-Dec-09 22:56
4093PekrI mean - being NATted to different public address ...28-Dec-09 22:56
4092Carlah28-Dec-09 22:56
4091Pekrso actually it might come out from different public address ...28-Dec-09 22:56
4090PekrMy brother put public IPs also on some subsequent routers.28-Dec-09 22:55
4089Carlyes28-Dec-09 22:55
4088Grahammaybe your firewall is blocking this heartbeat ?28-Dec-09 22:55
4087PekrCarl - can you see any 193.85.151.* IP in there?28-Dec-09 22:55
4086Pekrwait a minute, maybe I have to kill someone :-)28-Dec-09 22:55
4085Grahamsafeworlds is not contacting you ...28-Dec-09 22:55
4084GrahamPekr, you don't understand28-Dec-09 22:54
4083PekrGraham - if port 5500 would not work, I think that altme name translation would not work ...28-Dec-09 22:54
4082CarlWhat I said above was that if I grep the log, I do not see a "live" message from your server.28-Dec-09 22:54
4081PekrWell, then everything is ok on my side. So why you are saying that you can't ping Xidys?28-Dec-09 22:53
4080PekrGraham - doing what? ;-) My worlds are running, clients connected, so yes, my world is doing it :-)28-Dec-09 22:53
4079GrahamXidys Altme server -- ( every 5 mins ) ---> safeworlds:550028-Dec-09 22:53
4078CarlYou do not need 5500 inbound. Only outbound.28-Dec-09 22:53
4077PekrOr you need 5500 port being accessible to your server?28-Dec-09 22:53
4076Grahamso does wireshark show that your altme sever is doing this??28-Dec-09 22:52
4075Pekrping to public IP? Should work.28-Dec-09 22:52
4074PekrCarl - to proceed - you said you can't ping Xidys ... what does it mean?28-Dec-09 22:52
4073Pekrhmm, maybe even the name, but it does not matter ...28-Dec-09 22:52
4072CarlYes, it sends world name and a hash key to authenticate your claim.28-Dec-09 22:52
4071PekrGraham - no, wrong - the "ping" is sending IP and port ...28-Dec-09 22:51
4070PekrOr you need DST NAT 5500 back to my world servers?28-Dec-09 22:51
4069GrahamBut if you run more than one world on the same IP address .. the "ping" must be also sending the world name28-Dec-09 22:51
4068PekrNormal ping to public (registered/sent) IP adress?28-Dec-09 22:51
4067PekrSo just tell me, what your "ping" means ...28-Dec-09 22:50
4066GrahamIt's a heartbeart every 5 mins28-Dec-09 22:50
4065PekrIf I am online with 2 worlds right now, being connected to Xidys now = ports are OK28-Dec-09 22:50
4064CarlThis is also used to "lock" the world name from reuse.28-Dec-09 22:50
4063CarlThis also allows dynamic IPs to operate.28-Dec-09 22:49
4062GrahamAltme must be calling home regularly so that mum knows you're alive and not to release your name28-Dec-09 22:49
4061CarlExplanation: worlds know your IP because you send it to SafeWorlds server every 5 mins.28-Dec-09 22:49
4060GrahamPekr, does wireshark show any contact with the homeworld ..??28-Dec-09 22:49
4059Pekrdon't tell me you can't ping 22:49
4058CarlYes, there is.28-Dec-09 22:48
4057PekrThere is no such requirement in the docs!28-Dec-09 22:48
4056PekrCarl - what do you mean by "ping"?28-Dec-09 22:48
4055GrahamPekr, your client is pinging safeworlds .. they're not pinging you!28-Dec-09 22:47
4054PekrGraham - if I would want a solution, I would pay few bucks for permanent registration and be done with it ... = noone would complain about apparent bug.28-Dec-09 22:47
4053GrahamPekr doesn't want solutions .. he wants a perrmanent fix28-Dec-09 22:47
4052PekrI think, that stops pinging, or at some point mistakenly decides, that my worlds are not online for more than 10 days, and frees the names. That is the part I would try to look for the bug ...28-Dec-09 22:46
4051CarlXidys shows no server pings.28-Dec-09 22:46
4050SteeveWow i'ts cheating :-)28-Dec-09 22:46
4049PekrGraham - no, that requirement is not there, and should not be there.28-Dec-09 22:46
4048Grahammaybe all you need Pekr is a script that pings safeworlds on port 550028-Dec-09 22:45
4047PekrIn one case, I also notice bug with backport connection from I mean - when trying to start 2 servers on one machine. It registered second world on the same port .... but I don't remember it exactly ...28-Dec-09 22:45
4046PekrIt ran OK ... my public IP is - 22:43
4045PekrIt has to be open - I am right now on my own network.28-Dec-09 22:42
4044CarlI can grep the log... 1 min.28-Dec-09 22:42
4043Pekreverything enablet (outgouing)28-Dec-09 22:42
4042CarlTry this in REBOL: close open tcp:// 22:42
4041PekrI just don't know how to track it down. The only thing I can follow is docs, which state, that tries for 10 days ... but it is not the case.28-Dec-09 22:42
4040CarlThere are only two ways this can happen (that I can think of): 1. you have 5500 blocked (outgoing) 2. you are using AltServe (not AltME) and it does not ping (because it is commerical)28-Dec-09 22:41
4039Pekryes, I run 50 mikrotik routers, I know what I am doing :-) But - you say I need to open port 5500 INTO my network?28-Dec-09 22:40
4038CarlIf the Safeworlds server does not see the ping, then it cannot reset the timer on your world.28-Dec-09 22:40
4037CarlNote that AltME when used as a server must be able to ping port 5500 at regular intervals. That's how Safeworlds keeps your world registered.28-Dec-09 22:39
4036PekrBut I can guarantee, that the worlds are used. I was online the same day, and in few hours, worlds were not accessible, and stated world names being available. That should not happen.28-Dec-09 22:39
4035CarlSo, you use AltME for both server and client.28-Dec-09 22:38
4034PekrAltME only ...28-Dec-09 22:38
4033CarlPekr, are you using AltServe or AtlME?28-Dec-09 22:38
4032Grahamme too ...28-Dec-09 22:37
4031GrahamSo it appears to be only an issue with unpaid worlds?28-Dec-09 22:37
4030PekrI am trying to track down a nasty bug, not a business model28-Dec-09 22:37
4029PekrGraham - no.28-Dec-09 22:37
4028GrahamDid you pay for your worlds Pekr?28-Dec-09 22:36
4027PekrThere has to be some bug somewhere ...28-Dec-09 22:35
4026Pekryes, I run two worlds - Xidys, Vertuzo. It happened at least 5 times in last two years, that I lost world registration with no reason. Docs state, that we loose world registration, if world is not available to Safeworlds servers for 10 days. But it was not the case.....28-Dec-09 22:35
4025CarlI don't understand... can you explain the problem?28-Dec-09 22:34
4024Pekrthe most bad bug of Altme is the occassional registration of World names. Last happened last week. It happens every 2-3 months ...28-Dec-09 22:32
4023CarlYes, a blend of AltME and IOS.28-Dec-09 22:31
4022SteeveSo in Altme 3.0, the community can build plugins28-Dec-09 22:29
4021SteeveSo, still under development, glad to hear that.28-Dec-09 22:26
4020CarlSome info that I hope clarifies...

1. AltME is from Safeworlds, independent of REBOL Tech. 2. AltME is still being developed, but is waiting for R3. 3. AltME may be updated before R3. So, be sure to report bugs. 4. IOS was traded to Safeworlds. But, it may still be possible to get a trial release for users. 5. I use AltME quite often, but I must avoid lengthy conversations in order to get work done. 6. R3 Chat is a backend prototype for AltME 3.0 -- which in final form will be more like IOS (allow user-built reblets.)

28-Dec-09 22:15
4019GrahamOn IOS, it was the dreaded recycle bug .. here it is "internet busy ..." :(28-Dec-09 21:21
4018HenrikAltME is sort of "replaced" by R3 chat on R3, in that Carl usually doesn't visit this place very often and prefers R3 chat. The practical implementation of R3 chat is different and the outcome makes it serve a different purpose than AltME.22-Dec-09 10:21
4017joannakWell.. Since Reb2 don't have Unicode it would be really hard to do Unicode support into AltME .. After version 3, who knows.. Though I have to say that I have no idea of the AltME status. Earlier I though it belongs to some 3rd party company that just Used Rebol as a devtool.22-Dec-09 10:16
4016Steevei fear20-Dec-09 4:43
4015SteeveAltme is not developped anymore20-Dec-09 4:42
4014JerryI hope AltME will support Unicode soon. I have a REBOL Chinese group, And I would like to move it here.20-Dec-09 4:23
4013Reichart...Or Moor's laziness? :)19-Dec-09 20:35
4012SunandaPublic posts in the REBOL3 AltME world have just topped 125,000..... .....Add in non [web public] posts and the world is twice as large.

Carl replaced the original REBOL AltME world because it had grown too large. And that was with just 80,000 posts in total. We may be seeing an application of Moor's Law here :)

19-Dec-09 12:34
4011BrianHA hidden legacy filesystem hierarchy with a user-friendly one overlaid on top. And the sensible one to use depends on what you want to do, but command line tools (like REBOL) can quite easily access both, if you know what you're doing.10-Dec-09 3:51
4010Maximmore like OSX? in what way?10-Dec-09 3:14
4009BrianHMaxim, the changes to Vista just make it work more like OS X and some Linux distributions. You can use similar methods to deal with the confusion to the ones that work on those platforms.10-Dec-09 2:07
4008BrianHPeterWood, that distinction isn't between themed applications and non-themed - that distinction is unrelated.10-Dec-09 2:04
4007BrianHReichart, i agree with you, but that doesn't work with user-based security. That is application-based security, something that Windows doesn't support. You can argue with what the security model should have been, but that doesn't affect what is.10-Dec-09 2:03
4006PeterWoodFrom what I understand this is only a problem under Windows 7 for non-themed applications. Themed applications use a "virtual" location. (Perhaps some Windows expert can confirm this).

I guess it is unlikely that AltME will be converted to a themed application.

10-Dec-09 0:21
4005ReichartI agree with Maxim...

But will extend a concept, which is that there should also be a Shared space, for example, where a given application ALLOWs anyone (or specific other apps) to change the data.

9-Dec-09 22:36
4004Maximto me the problem is that MS should have created a real application framework... actually, only Apple with OSX seems to be really close to this.

there should be THREE root directories and only three dirs for each application. windows has dozens, which is crazy. 1. Application SOURCE data (.exe, libs, datafile, etc) 2. Application STORAGE data (game saves, defaults 3. Application Temporary data, flushed on program quit by the OS.

within Storage, you'd have application and user-based storage and that's it.

The os refuses to execute any file not within application source dir, so you have already clamped down on a lot of security issues. a list of approved .exe is stored whenever you launch an application for the first time.

for a bit more flexibility, several application dirs could exist, so that you can do stuff like compile items and run them locally within your dev environment, but these dirs would be explicitely registered within the os.

on install the Application should be required to ask permission (like flash) in how much space will be stored within STORAGE if it exceeds a max default, independently of SOURCE.

The implementation of MyXxxx folders is completely horrendous, and should be a simple and ubiquitous form that has one entry for each media type, and a browser where you want to put your stuff (which might not be user-specific).

IIRC this was addressed in Vista, but then they went and added aliases to everything, which raises errors in the explorer, cause you can't use them. They alias core windows directories in other languages, the result being that explorer and actual disk info are different! this completely fucks up many applications (like rebol).

windows has a hard time "fixing" things... they always just patch it... its worse since they have a hard time starting with any good implementation of anything to begin with.

9-Dec-09 20:57
4003AdrianSYou get into problems when companies dictate that pre-installed apps are on a read only partition, or there is a disk quota.9-Dec-09 20:33
4002Reichart"The real problem is that no program in some directory under the Program Files directory should be putting its data files (or allowing writing) to the same directory as the program files."

I don't agree with this. In fact, I vote that we have sandboxes (that are also folders), and a company can do what ever they want in their own sandbox.

9-Dec-09 19:18
4001Gabrielethe problem is that windows sucks; the "don't write here" is ms's work around that.9-Dec-09 10:47
4000GrahamGiving myself write privgs on the altme directory has fixed the issue. Tiresome this. What exactly is the security problem with storing data with programs?9-Dec-09 9:35
3999BrianHOf course, this is all a consequence of user-based security being kind of a bad idea in the first place.9-Dec-09 9:01
3998BrianHAs it is, Win7 (and to a lesser extent Vista) do exactly that kind of workaround for bad programs under Program Files, redirecting their data files to another ProgramFiles directory under local settings. It's tricky, but not as tricky as trying to make the programs secure otherwise. However, if you put your program directory somewhere where it can't figure out that aliasing, the system has to assume that you know what you are doing and you have to act accordingly and fix the permissions on the directory to match what you want to do.9-Dec-09 8:59
3997BrianHThe real problem is that no program in some directory under the Program Files directory should be putting its data files (or allowing writing) to the same directory as the program files. That's a Win9x thing, and insecure. If programs that are running outside of the system directories run with less privileges, then all the better.9-Dec-09 8:54
3996BrianHChrome works like AltME and works just fine with the Windows 2000 security model. It does this by putting the program and its files in the local settings directory, then checking it before running. MySpace IM used to do this to allow students to load the program onto half-locked-down computers at their schools without getting permission from the admins (I was one such admin, so this was annoying), but Chrome seems to be much less of a security hole. AltME could quite easily work the same way.9-Dec-09 8:51
3995ReichartWouldn't it be "more right" if Vista let the program be a portable application, and in fact supported this "correct" way of doing things?9-Dec-09 8:19
3994BrianHFix the permissions of the directory. AltME (like many REBOL programs) doesn't act like a proper Windows app, it acts like a portable app. It doesn't put its files in the right place for an installed Windows app. Vista and 7 are right to complain.9-Dec-09 7:27
3993amacleodsounds as annoying as vista8-Dec-09 14:10
3992Grahamnow if I don't run as admin, it says it can't write to the state file.8-Dec-09 11:35
3991GrahamI've moved to my new windows 7 laptop and have setup Altme in it's own directory at c:\altme8-Dec-09 11:35
3990ReichartCarl has been finally getting around to attending to this world, things should start working again....2-Dec-09 7:33
3989Mcheanpossibly - that was a suprise1-Dec-09 17:04
3988Izkata6-May-2008, someone posted a bunch of Javascript asking about SQL injection code, could that be it?1-Dec-09 8:11
3987HenrikThere was discussion about a JS exploit a while ago. It could be in that file.1-Dec-09 7:38
3986GrahamJS ?1-Dec-09 6:30
3985Mcheanmust be a false warning1-Dec-09 4:22
3984Mcheanfile:C:\Altme\worlds\rebol3\chat\380.set->(SCRIPT0001)1-Dec-09 4:20
3983Mcheanstrange - started up altme and ms anti virus reported a trojan virus1-Dec-09 4:20

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