| # | User | Message | Date |
| 1972 | Kaj | It means we've also been in the PCPlus print magazine. Michael has been writing us up for years in the Linux Format magazine | 23-Dec-09 5:05 |
| 1971 | Kaj | Oh, that's Mike Saunders, our regular reporter, but this is the first time I see him writing here | 22-Dec-09 22:11 |
| 1970 | Kaj | Ah cool - or maybe not :-) | 22-Dec-09 22:07 |
| 1969 | Alan | Kaj: you got a mention here : http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/10-operating-systems-you-ve-never-heard-of-657469 | 22-Dec-09 21:51 |
| 1968 | Kaj | http://www.osnews.com/story/22639/REBOL_3_Runs_on_Syllable_Desktop | 21-Dec-09 16:09 |
| 1967 | Kaj | Published the R3 "port" on OSNews: | 21-Dec-09 16:09 |
| 1966 | Kaj | There's more information about this in the startup menu, on our download page and in our FAQ | 15-Dec-09 15:19 |
| 1965 | Paul | I didn't Kaj, I will try again. | 15-Dec-09 0:59 |
| 1964 | Kaj | If you don't feed it the VMware image, you must at least choose the VirtualBox installation option | 14-Dec-09 17:15 |
| 1963 | Kaj | VirtualBox is weird, though; it works less well than VMware and QEmu | 14-Dec-09 17:14 |
| 1962 | Kaj | Yes, did you download our VMware image? | 14-Dec-09 17:13 |
| 1961 | Paul | Tried to load syllable on virtualbox yesterday. Does syllable support virtual clients? | 14-Dec-09 12:45 |
| 1960 | Graham | I don't have an ARM based PC yet .. but that is going to be my next purchase :) | 13-Dec-09 22:49 |
| 1959 | Kaj | Graham, I intend to port Server to ARM, but it's only a plan right now | 13-Dec-09 22:44 |
| 1958 | Kaj | Brian, yes, we need LGPL compatibility, but for even deeper reasons | 13-Dec-09 22:42 |
| 1957 | Kaj | Again, it will depend on what you install on it, but there are no gross background processes going on such as on other systems | 13-Dec-09 22:41 |
| 1956 | Kaj | It's just the standard system logging going on, but there's no specific support such as an SSD filesystem | 13-Dec-09 22:40 |
| 1955 | Kaj | Oh, flash. Syllable Desktop is very silent in terms of disk writes, and Server doesn't carry many more processes | 13-Dec-09 22:39 |
| 1954 | Graham | I think I read somewhere that some of these linuces are optimized to reduce disk writes ... | 13-Dec-09 22:37 |
| 1953 | Graham | Does it need to write to disk frequently? | 13-Dec-09 22:36 |
| 1952 | Kaj | What's the context for NAND? | 13-Dec-09 22:36 |
| 1951 | Kaj | I'm running a number of websites on Cheyenne fairly comfortably within 64 MB | 13-Dec-09 22:35 |
| 1950 | Kaj | On a 192 MB machine, it starts up using 13 MB. On a 768 MB machine, it uses 21 MB for itself | 13-Dec-09 22:35 |
| 1949 | Kaj | Depends greatly on where you load it and what you run | 13-Dec-09 22:34 |
| 1948 | Graham | How well does it treat NAND ? | 13-Dec-09 22:34 |
| 1947 | Graham | And ram requirements? | 13-Dec-09 22:33 |
| 1946 | Kaj | If you're talking about Syllable Server, that is 370 MB installed for the 0.3 version. It is currently growing, but I also did a test build for a stripped cloud server that was around 250 MB | 13-Dec-09 22:32 |
| 1945 | Graham | ( shame ..all these plug computers which are being used as stealth servers are using ARM processors ) | 13-Dec-09 22:32 |
| 1944 | BrianH | Well, the R3 host code license needs to allow LGPL licensed hosts - that is what I was talking about earlier. If there are restrictions in the host code license that would prevent that, it would be a problem for platforms like Syllable with LGPL libraries. | 13-Dec-09 22:31 |
| 1943 | Graham | what's the smallest server footprint in mb? | 13-Dec-09 22:31 |
| 1942 | Kaj | And no, there is only Syllable for 32 bit Intel | 13-Dec-09 22:29 |
| 1941 | Kaj | When Ohloh analysed our code, it turned out we're predominantly LGPL. (While Haiku, which chose to be MIT, is predominantly GPL in practice) | 13-Dec-09 22:29 |
| 1940 | Kaj | The applications are GPL, because noone needs to build on them, anyway | 13-Dec-09 22:28 |
| 1939 | BrianH | Ah, the libraries. That fits then. | 13-Dec-09 22:28 |
| 1938 | Kaj | The Syllable libraries are LGPL, so that it is a platform for all software. This includes GNU's C library | 13-Dec-09 22:27 |
| 1937 | Graham | Does syllable run on ARM v5 instruction set? | 13-Dec-09 22:27 |
| 1936 | BrianH | No, project abandonment. | 13-Dec-09 22:26 |
| 1935 | Kaj | There was NO LICENSE ABANDONMENT | 13-Dec-09 22:26 |
| 1934 | BrianH | Him disappearing. | 13-Dec-09 22:26 |
| 1933 | BrianH | That is what I meant by "abandoned". | 13-Dec-09 22:25 |
| 1932 | Kaj | NO: it was always like this | 13-Dec-09 22:25 |
| 1931 | BrianH | So he relicensed as LGPL? Good for him :) | 13-Dec-09 22:25 |
| 1930 | Kaj | Syllable was the result of him simply disappearing | 13-Dec-09 22:25 |
| 1929 | Maxim | ok, but part of the point for me is that the license isn't yet finalized and a direct discussion between you and Carl, is going to be much more effective at making the host suitable to your needs than us assuming and argumenting about it. Contrary to what many might think, Carl is quite open to suggestions. When the case and reasoning for it is founded and logical, he has rarely been, if ever, at odds with anything I've suggested. | 13-Dec-09 22:24 |
| 1928 | Kaj | What he said was that he would abandon it in favour of BSD if the GPL zealots kept nagging him | 13-Dec-09 22:24 |
| 1927 | BrianH | I guess I didn't recall correctly. I remrmber that the original developer of Atheos used the GPL to prevent anyone from making commercial clones of his operating system, then abandoned it. Syllable was the result of that. I guess I remember wrong. | 13-Dec-09 22:23 |
| 1926 | Kaj | When you say "LGPL", it will echo "GPL" in the heads of free software zealots and "evil" in the heads of anti free software zealots | 13-Dec-09 22:22 |
| 1925 | Kaj | We didn't switch; it was always like this | 13-Dec-09 22:21 |
| 1924 | BrianH | Wasn't Syllable derived from Atheos, which was GPL iirc? How did yo manage to switch to LGPL? | 13-Dec-09 22:21 |
| 1923 | Kaj | The project almost exploded over it two years ago, and I've been in dire straits since | 13-Dec-09 22:19 |
| 1922 | Kaj | To the contrary, it's extremely important to Syllable | 13-Dec-09 22:18 |
| 1921 | Maxim | going OT we are in syllable group, and I think now is not the time for a license debate. | 13-Dec-09 22:14 |
| 1920 | Maxim | the point of the host is not to start your own rebol, but to allow rebol to work in your stuff. that, I think, should be emphasized within the documentation/web site when it will all be official and "a product". | 13-Dec-09 22:12 |
| 1919 | BrianH | Clones are good if they don't fork the development effort. As long as clone code can be reintegrated into the original, cool. | 13-Dec-09 22:11 |
| 1918 | BrianH | Though that would be bad on principle, in practice we don't want to encourage cloning - it could lead to dividing the community. It's better to cooperate than to compete in this case. The main license restriction that would hurt us is anything that would prevent us from cloning the host code, since that is basically what every host code port is. | 13-Dec-09 22:07 |
| 1917 | Pekr | I think that many ppl will be disappointed by licences. There's some hint already in Host related wiki document ... imo the licence will prevent R3 Clone DLL to work with host .... but I would be glad if it would not be so ... | 13-Dec-09 21:52 |
| 1916 | Kaj | Yes | 13-Dec-09 21:45 |
| 1915 | BrianH | I mean architecturally compatible: Dynamic linking with a clean integration interface. | 13-Dec-09 21:44 |
| 1914 | Kaj | That will depend on the still-to-be-revealed two licenses | 13-Dec-09 21:42 |
| 1913 | BrianH | Depending on linking issues, of course. Fortunately the R3 host kit seems to be compatible with that linking model :) | 13-Dec-09 21:03 |
| 1912 | Kaj | Yup | 13-Dec-09 20:22 |
| 1911 | Maxim | ok. LGPL is a "fair" license. if you edit others work, you help them back, but your not *forced* to have them leverage your work for free | 13-Dec-09 20:22 |
| 1910 | Kaj | LGPL, mainly, so you can run closed software on it | 13-Dec-09 20:21 |
| 1909 | Kaj | If you could settle for an FTP server you could try Desktop, but you can't trust your files to be safe | 13-Dec-09 20:20 |
| 1908 | Maxim | is syllable GPL or MIT/BSD ? | 13-Dec-09 20:20 |
| 1907 | Kaj | Yup | 13-Dec-09 20:20 |
| 1906 | Maxim | (once I have a bit more C/C++ under my belt, I might see if that's at all possible). | 13-Dec-09 20:20 |
| 1905 | Maxim | would be nice to try to get the latest mesa project running on it with the gallium driver model. that would get you HW accelerated gfx without the need for your own HW drivers. | 13-Dec-09 20:18 |
| 1904 | Maxim | the reason I want to try out syllable is that it seems to align with much of the sane Amiga principles while sheding those which seemed more closely related to religion. | 13-Dec-09 20:16 |
| 1903 | Kaj | I did just get the OpenSSH server going on Desktop. A long standing request from these server operators | 13-Dec-09 20:16 |
| 1902 | Kaj | Was slashdotted several times without going down | 13-Dec-09 20:15 |
| 1901 | Kaj | Dunno, at least this one is not business critical. A decade ago, Syllable's forerunner was already running as a public web/FTP/CVS server | 13-Dec-09 20:15 |
| 1900 | Maxim | another mad mad ;-) | 13-Dec-09 20:14 |
| 1899 | Kaj | There is someone running a public web server on Desktop - on his own web server in his own language | 13-Dec-09 20:13 |
| 1898 | Maxim | the first is as fast as a bee stuck in molasses, while the later, well it just sucks. ;-) | 13-Dec-09 20:13 |
| 1897 | Maxim | hahahahah I want a clean desktop to run the management on... I really don't like the linux KDE and Gnome desktops. | 13-Dec-09 20:12 |
| 1896 | Kaj | Why is it that you build a desktop OS, and everyone immediately wants to run a server with it? :-) | 13-Dec-09 20:11 |
| 1895 | Maxim | ok, well I'll give it a good testing when I get that extra machine setup. | 13-Dec-09 20:11 |
| 1894 | Kaj | That's why I built Syllable Server as a companion | 13-Dec-09 20:11 |
| 1893 | Kaj | I seem to remember our founder tested the server, too, but in any case, it's not well tested | 13-Dec-09 20:10 |
| 1892 | Kaj | Yes, Samba is long ported, but only the client, in principle | 13-Dec-09 20:10 |
| 1891 | Maxim | ehehe | 13-Dec-09 20:09 |
| 1890 | Maxim | is there a way to install/compile something like SMB on it? | 13-Dec-09 20:09 |
| 1889 | Kaj | I told you we declared him and his boss mad | 13-Dec-09 20:09 |
| 1888 | Kaj | And I/O speed is not very good, but it works | 13-Dec-09 20:09 |
| 1887 | Kaj | I'm trying to say: no Windows clients, other than Syllable-on-Windows | 13-Dec-09 20:08 |
| 1886 | Kaj | But the clients were Syllable Desktop running in VMs on Windows. That's how the client app was distributed - also to customers | 13-Dec-09 20:07 |
| 1885 | Maxim | I/O *speed* that is... | 13-Dec-09 20:07 |
| 1884 | Kaj | Yes, the Desktop DVD server was churning through thousands of network accesses per day, from something in the order of five to ten clients, I think | 13-Dec-09 20:07 |
| 1883 | Maxim | Is file I/O comparable to Linux? Does it support windows client connections out of the box? | 13-Dec-09 20:07 |
| 1882 | Kaj | Well, Desktop has its own file server design, so you'd have to port the client to your Mac and Windows | 13-Dec-09 20:05 |
| 1881 | BrianH | Was the DVD factory running multi-user? | 13-Dec-09 20:05 |
| 1880 | Maxim | I want to setup a file server box at home but don't want windows, nor mac for that. the first sucks at file handling itself, the seconds well, its file explorer is just unproductive and even dangerous to use. | 13-Dec-09 20:04 |
| 1879 | Kaj | Nevertheless, the DVD factory ran | 13-Dec-09 20:04 |
| 1878 | Kaj | But we declared him mad, just like Maxim and his REBOL C compiler :-) | 13-Dec-09 20:04 |
| 1877 | BrianH | Speed isn't everything - you can test functionality in a VM. | 13-Dec-09 20:03 |
| 1876 | Kaj | There is, or at least was, a DVD factory in Denmark running on it | 13-Dec-09 20:03 |
| 1875 | Maxim | how does syllable desktop compare as a multi-user file server? | 13-Dec-09 20:03 |
| 1874 | Kaj | The only good point would be if Syllable doesn't support the hardware, but that's more a concern with Haiku | 13-Dec-09 20:03 |
| 1873 | Kaj | There's also no point in it for trying Syllable, because all the speed will be sucked up by the VM | 13-Dec-09 20:01 |
| 1872 | Maxim | I've had a lot of grief with networkind through vms | 13-Dec-09 20:01 |
| 1871 | Kaj | Real men run on bare metal :-) | 13-Dec-09 20:00 |
| 1870 | Graham | Just run it as a vm | 13-Dec-09 19:59 |
| 1869 | Maxim | I also liked what I saw of Haiku. I do plan on trying out syllable in the not too distant future... basically when I'll build myself a linux machine, I'll make a few different boot partitions on that machine, one will be syllable :-) | 13-Dec-09 19:54 |
| 1868 | Pekr | Next hobby OS could be Haiku, AmigaOS 4 .... | 13-Dec-09 19:51 |
| 1867 | BrianH | Different kernel, for one thing. Syllable Desktop has nothing to do with Linux. Server is the Syllable user space on the Linux kernel. | 13-Dec-09 19:38 |
| 1866 | Robert | How is the Desktop different to Linux? | 13-Dec-09 19:37 |
| 1865 | Kaj | Plus 40+ extra Linux distros, of course... | 13-Dec-09 18:05 |
| 1864 | Kaj | As with R2, Carl will still need to build on 40+ platforms | 13-Dec-09 18:04 |
| 1863 | Maxim | ' :-/ | 13-Dec-09 18:04 |
| 1862 | Kaj | To illustrate how exact this needs to be: there are currently two host builds for Linux: on Ubuntu and on Fedora. The Fedora-built library doesn't work on Syllable Desktop | 13-Dec-09 18:03 |
| 1861 | Kaj | Symlinking the required library versions sufficed to get it to work | 13-Dec-09 18:02 |
| 1860 | Kaj | R3 depends on the C library so far, and although the same library is used the versioning of those libraries is different between Linux and Syllable Desktop (and thus also between Syllable Server and Syllable Desktop) | 13-Dec-09 18:01 |
| 1859 | Kaj | Well, except in this case of Syllable Desktop, because it is very well aligned with Linux | 13-Dec-09 17:59 |
| 1858 | Kaj | Running on the same CPU architecture with the same machine instructions is also just that. Those machine instructions call system functions, so you need to provide those on the target system | 13-Dec-09 17:58 |
| 1857 | Kaj | The same goes for a static library (which would be called .a on most systems). There are still system dependent machine instructions in them | 13-Dec-09 17:56 |
| 1856 | Kaj | The format of the binary is just that: the format. Even if many systems use ELF these days, the machine code instructions you store in that format are still very different | 13-Dec-09 17:55 |
| 1855 | Maxim | he told me that the host will be available as a .lib eventually. (my guess is that will probably be the sdk). | 13-Dec-09 17:55 |
| 1854 | Maxim | but using .so files doesn't depend on linux does it? as long as the cpu matches... you should be able to connect into .so files (ifthe stack method used, corresponds obviously) | 13-Dec-09 17:54 |
| 1853 | Kaj | Most people seem to think that when Carl says the R3 library is portable, this means you need only one binary. This is not true at all | 13-Dec-09 17:53 |
| 1852 | Kaj | No, Syllable Desktop is not a Linux system at all | 13-Dec-09 17:52 |
| 1851 | Maxim | ah, I realize that you mean the format of the library used by syllable isn't normally linux .so files? | 13-Dec-09 17:52 |
| 1850 | Kaj | Why it isn't supposed to work? | 13-Dec-09 17:51 |
| 1849 | Maxim | why not? | 13-Dec-09 17:50 |
| 1848 | Kaj | The R3 core library hasn't been ported to Desktop yet, but I'm using one of the Linux-built libraries as is, through a trick | 13-Dec-09 17:50 |
| 1847 | Kaj | Desktop is the wiley one, because it isn't supposed to work at all :-) | 13-Dec-09 17:49 |
| 1846 | Kaj | Got R3 running through the host build on both Syllable Desktop and Syllable Server | 13-Dec-09 17:48 |
| 1845 | Kaj | Thanks! | 24-Nov-09 0:50 |
| 1844 | Geomol | I really wish, I had more time, so I could also try this out. Well, hopefully some day, I'll see this in action. | 24-Nov-09 0:09 |
| 1843 | Gregg | Excellent news Kaj! | 23-Nov-09 23:58 |
| 1842 | Kaj | Using Cheyenne to run tens of websites here, including Try REBOL | 23-Nov-09 22:39 |
| 1841 | Kaj | With X11 you could also run View now, but the X11 installation process is currently a lot of work | 23-Nov-09 22:38 |
| 1840 | Graham | cheyenne I guess is okay? | 23-Nov-09 22:38 |
| 1839 | Kaj | Been included with Syllable Server since the beginning, a few years now | 23-Nov-09 22:38 |
| 1838 | Graham | And rebol 2? | 23-Nov-09 22:37 |
| 1837 | Kaj | I don' t think it' s in Nix | 23-Nov-09 22:37 |
| 1836 | Kaj | Sure, if you compile it | 23-Nov-09 22:37 |
| 1835 | Graham | Can it run Hylafax ? | 23-Nov-09 22:32 |
| 1834 | Kaj | I ported Nix as extra package manager and used that to install X11 | 23-Nov-09 22:05 |
| 1833 | Kaj | It has now :-) | 23-Nov-09 22:05 |
| 1832 | Graham | eh??? syllable server has a gui? | 23-Nov-09 19:34 |
| 1831 | Kaj | I am connected running AltME on Syllable Server now | 23-Nov-09 18:58 |
| 1830 | Kaj | Software OpenGL should be possible on SDL, though, for testing or low speed requirements | 21-Oct-09 12:43 |
| 1829 | Maxim | ok | 21-Oct-09 12:42 |
| 1828 | Kaj | So it looks like for some time to come, you will still need X11 for hardware accelerated OpenGL | 21-Oct-09 12:41 |
| 1827 | Kaj | There's an old OpenGL extension that was revived a year ago and then again not updated. If it works, it probably only supports hardware acceleration on one old video chip | 21-Oct-09 12:40 |
| 1826 | Kaj | DirectFB 2, with OpenGL support, still seems to be just a plan | 21-Oct-09 12:38 |
| 1825 | Kaj | Maxim, the OpenGL situation in DirectFB is still quite unclear | 21-Oct-09 12:38 |
| 1824 | Kaj | On the other hand, VirtualBox is weird. VMware and QEmu often give better results | 17-May-09 18:00 |
| 1823 | Kaj | Yes. We have some conflicting reports about it, but it should work, using the boot entry we supply for it | 17-May-09 17:58 |
| 1822 | BrianH | Is running in VirtualBox tested? | 17-May-09 16:07 |
| 1821 | Kaj | http://www.osnews.com/story/21501/Syllable_0_6_6_Released | 17-May-09 14:54 |
| 1820 | Kaj | Here's the announcement on OSNews: | 17-May-09 14:52 |
| 1819 | Kaj | Many bugs were fixed, including several regressions from earlier releases. The window decorators don't destabilise the system anymore. The installation procedure is greatly enhanced with options to fix hardware support problems. The native web browser is replaced with Webster, based on a newer version of the WebKit engine. Many enhancements were made to standards support, leading, among others, to the ability to run QEmu - so now you can run virtual machines. The documentation was improved and several translations were added. Read more in the full release notes: http://downloads.syllable.org/Syllable/i586/systems/Desktop/0.6.6/README-SyllableDesktop-0.6.6.txt ISO CD images, (VMware) emulator images, an upgrade pack and documentation are available from the download page: http://web.syllable.org/pages/get-Syllable.html Extra software is available here: http://web.syllable.org/Syllable/downloads.html | 17-May-09 14:51 |
| 1818 | Kaj | It's taken a long time this time, but we released Syllable Desktop 0.6.6 | 17-May-09 14:49 |
| 1817 | Kaj | Thanks | 10-Nov-08 16:29 |
| 1816 | Gregg | Very cool Kaj. | 10-Nov-08 6:00 |
| 1815 | Kaj | If anyone here wants a test account on it, let me know | 10-Nov-08 3:02 |
| 1814 | Kaj | It's running Cheyenne, possibly with QuarterMaster, FTP and an SSH server | 10-Nov-08 3:01 |
| 1813 | Kaj | The server is just a P3 650 MHz with 128 MB memory and an old 8 GB disk | 10-Nov-08 2:59 |
| 1812 | Kaj | Thanks. We made sure it would by having static pages, but on the other hand, the connection is not overly powerful at 10 Mb/s | 10-Nov-08 2:58 |
| 1811 | Anton | Page loads nice and quick. | 10-Nov-08 2:56 |
| 1810 | Kaj | It was already made with my REBOL CMS | 10-Nov-08 2:05 |
| 1809 | Kaj | http://softwarefreedom.nl/ | 10-Nov-08 2:04 |
| 1808 | Kaj | The Dutch website of Software Freedom Day is now running on Syllable Server and Cheyenne: | 10-Nov-08 2:04 |
| 1807 | Kaj | But that currently has a nasty binary incompatibility, so if you get it installed, you may not be able to run some other software | 28-Oct-08 21:19 |
| 1806 | Kaj | In any case, if you want to try you need our development build | 28-Oct-08 21:18 |
| 1805 | Kaj | Yes, that, too | 28-Oct-08 21:17 |
| 1804 | BrianH | Assuming that interface is bootable on the computer in question, or course. | 28-Oct-08 21:17 |
| 1803 | Kaj | If it is connected through a USB interface, like on the Asus EeePC for example, you may hit bugs in our USB support | 28-Oct-08 21:16 |
| 1802 | Kaj | If it is connected through an IDE interface, it should work just like a hard disk | 28-Oct-08 21:15 |
| 1801 | Kaj | Depends | 28-Oct-08 21:15 |
| 1800 | Oldes | Is it possible to install Syllable on bootable SD card? | 28-Oct-08 19:02 |
| 1799 | Kaj | Yes, I may have mentioned JeOS here. It's been out for about a year | 3-Oct-08 19:10 |
| 1798 | Graham | Looks like Ubuntu are aiming at the vm hosting platform as well http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/jeos | 3-Oct-08 6:20 |
| 1797 | Kaj | Which ones have all the REBOL stuff integrated? | 30-Sep-08 0:02 |
| 1796 | Graham | called living on the edge :) | 29-Sep-08 8:03 |
| 1795 | Graham | got a point there! | 29-Sep-08 8:03 |
| 1794 | Pekr | Graham - why would you not use some linux distro out there? This is nothing against Syllable, but if they are mostly beta, there is plenty of Linux distros out there, no? Even some small and stripped down ones ... | 29-Sep-08 7:14 |
| 1793 | Graham | wrong continent | 29-Sep-08 3:29 |
| 1792 | Kaj | You could play the snake, divide the Indians among themselves and run the Boa web server. :-) We have a build recipe for it | 29-Sep-08 3:29 |
| 1791 | Graham | Please do ... I'll wait till then ... as I don't want any arrows in my back! | 29-Sep-08 3:28 |
| 1790 | Kaj | Syllable Server should be fairly easy to install on Slicehost. It is my first target for running my own cloud server, so when I get to that I will write specific instructions | 29-Sep-08 3:27 |
| 1789 | Kaj | If you want to run PHP on Cheyenne, you have to patch it according to the Cheyenne instructions | 29-Sep-08 3:26 |
| 1788 | Kaj | You could install Apache for PHP according to the Syllable Server manual | 29-Sep-08 3:25 |
| 1787 | Kaj | We have a build recipe for PHP, which standardises the procedure, but I haven't tried it on Syllable Server yet | 29-Sep-08 3:25 |
| 1786 | Kaj | Yes, according to the regular instructions of a package for Linux | 29-Sep-08 3:24 |
| 1785 | Graham | so, you have to compile yourself ? | 29-Sep-08 3:23 |
| 1784 | Kaj | Syllable Server can basically run anything Linux can run, but for many things there are no binary packages yet | 29-Sep-08 3:23 |
| 1783 | Kaj | http://lwn.net/Distributions/ | 29-Sep-08 3:22 |
| 1782 | Kaj | Syllable is now also listed in the distributions list of LWN: | 29-Sep-08 3:22 |
| 1781 | Graham | And can syllable be installed on to such places as slicehost ? | 29-Sep-08 3:09 |
| 1780 | Graham | Can Syllable run things like vbulletin ? Needs php and mysql | 29-Sep-08 1:23 |
| 1779 | Graham | ahhh.... | 24-Sep-08 1:52 |
| 1778 | BrianH | On this laptop I already have 4 virtual network adapters, 2 physical, 1 bridge, one DHCP service and 1 NAT. Adding VirtualBox would mean adding 1 more virtual adapter, 1 bridge or Internet Connection Sharing (another DHCP/NAT service), either of which I would have to reconnect manually depending on which physical adapter I am using. | 24-Sep-08 1:26 |
| 1777 | BrianH | How many virtual network adapters do I need to configure? How many bridges? How many DHCP and NAT services? | 24-Sep-08 1:22 |
| 1776 | Graham | it only takes up hard drive space! | 24-Sep-08 1:20 |
| 1775 | BrianH | I don't want to - I have enough overhead as it is. | 24-Sep-08 1:18 |
| 1774 | Graham | you can co-install virtualbox | 24-Sep-08 1:17 |
| 1773 | BrianH | I tend to need the Server stuff more (auto startup, headless operation, remote console), so I don't use VirtualBox myself, nor do I have an available computer on which I can install VirtualBox, since all compatible computers I own have VMware Server installed, even this laptop. | 24-Sep-08 1:16 |
| 1772 | BrianH | Those thicker VirtualBox guest additions make the guest a more civilized client of the host OS, but without them it doesn't work well. | 24-Sep-08 1:13 |
| 1771 | Kaj | It just needs one or two kernel boot options that aren't on the current install CD. He should read the VirtualBox section in our FAQ, or use the development build | 24-Sep-08 1:13 |
| 1770 | BrianH | I told him that you had said that the installer doesn't work very well. | 24-Sep-08 1:12 |
| 1769 | BrianH | Install CD I think. It seems to me that different VM platforms require thinner or thicker guest additions. VirtualBox seems to require more out of its guest code, and works quite badly without it. VMware doesn't require as much out of its guest code, so that code is easier to implement, and the VM works OK without it. | 24-Sep-08 1:11 |
| 1768 | Kaj | The install CD or the live CD? | 24-Sep-08 1:10 |
| 1767 | BrianH | He tried Syllable Desktop. | 24-Sep-08 1:09 |
| 1766 | shadwolf | I mean in the scope of closed hardwar unstandard etc... pda and portable consoles like PSP or DS are a master scale | 24-Sep-08 1:03 |
| 1765 | shadwolf | yes ... ans PSP is worst than a eee PC ... | 24-Sep-08 1:02 |
| 1764 | Kaj | Some ideas take many months to implement | 24-Sep-08 0:59 |
| 1763 | shadwolf | ho ok sorry forget it ;P that was a joke | 24-Sep-08 0:59 |
| 1762 | shadwolf | ok so here is another idea Syllabe on PSP as Homebrew ? | 24-Sep-08 0:59 |
| 1761 | shadwolf | now as he is not a specialist he can't tell me if it's ubuntu suport the sound properly or the intenal webcam | 24-Sep-08 0:58 |
| 1760 | shadwolf | hum my bro have a eee pc 1000 H and the only problem he face is with wifi and he is absolutly not a computer specialist. This can be solved by ndiswraper or madwifi patching it | 24-Sep-08 0:56 |
| 1759 | Kaj | Various Linux distros have a hard time supporting the EeePC, too | 24-Sep-08 0:55 |
| 1758 | shadwolf | I remember the old days when i was in university 10 years ago and i was animating linux install parties with april association ... that was always a pain to install linux on laptop | 24-Sep-08 0:53 |
| 1757 | shadwolf | deviant you mean more or less than usual laptop muwwwwwwwahahahahaha ... | 24-Sep-08 0:52 |
| 1756 | Kaj | Alphe, EeePC is weird, too. It has some deviating hardware parts, so we don't support all hardware, yet. The shipped Xandros Linux also has some strange characteristics that make it hard to install other systems | 24-Sep-08 0:50 |
| 1755 | Kaj | What were the symptoms and failure messages? | 24-Sep-08 0:46 |
| 1754 | Kaj | Did he try Syllable Desktop or Syllable Server? | 24-Sep-08 0:46 |
| 1753 | Kaj | It should work, though, but did he use the VirtualBox boot option? | 24-Sep-08 0:46 |
| 1752 | Kaj | VirtualBox is weird. It has problems running Syllable and it has bad performance characteristics | 24-Sep-08 0:45 |
| 1751 | BrianH | He has a recent enough processor that it has virtualization extensions, so VirtualBox isn't bad on it. | 23-Sep-08 19:14 |
| 1750 | BrianH | A friend of mine was having difficulty installing Syllable the other day. He runs VirtualBox, because he has had more luck with that than VMware Server. I explained why there would be differences between the two, but it would still be nice for both to be supported. I realize that there is not as much point to supporting VirtualBox as it is more like VMware Workstation, not Server. Still, it has better memory allocation characteristics than VMware. | 23-Sep-08 19:13 |
| 1749 | shadwolf | kaj asus EEE PC is your friend ^^ | 23-Sep-08 1:04 |
| 1748 | Graham | ok | 22-Sep-08 23:07 |
| 1747 | Kaj | They're all very interested | 22-Sep-08 23:06 |
| 1746 | Kaj | Everyone I met on the conferences is building applications out of multiple diverse open source parts. I'm offering all of them to solve their integration issues by taking the boring parts out of their hands and integrating them in a custom Linux platform | 22-Sep-08 23:06 |
| 1745 | Kaj | So it will still be a challenge to offer them REBOL solutions | 22-Sep-08 23:05 |
| 1744 | Graham | I meant Syllable | 22-Sep-08 23:04 |
| 1743 | Kaj | Virtual worlds are 3D these days | 22-Sep-08 23:04 |
| 1742 | Graham | so, what's the relationship to 3D? | 22-Sep-08 23:04 |
| 1741 | Kaj | I explained to them that REBOL is symbol based versus Smalltalk being object based, which makes it fundamentally more suitable for DSLs, and they understood right away | 22-Sep-08 23:03 |
| 1740 | Graham | I guess they couldn't decide which platform to use | 22-Sep-08 23:03 |
| 1739 | Kaj | I agree, and I thought of the irony that people in Amsterdam want everything to happen in Amsterdam | 22-Sep-08 23:02 |
| 1738 | Mchean | what did you think? | 22-Sep-08 23:02 |
| 1737 | Kaj | Yup | 22-Sep-08 23:02 |
| 1736 | Mchean | opencroquet? the squeak project? | 22-Sep-08 23:01 |
| 1735 | Kaj | They're nice for running Syllable and REBOL, though, and demoing their efficiency | 22-Sep-08 23:01 |
| 1734 | Graham | a conference on virtual worlds should have their conference in a virtual world | 22-Sep-08 23:01 |
| 1733 | Kaj | Yeah, but ten year old laptops take a week to compile a modern Linux distro | 22-Sep-08 23:01 |
| 1732 | Kaj | http://www.eduverse.org | 22-Sep-08 23:00 |
| 1731 | Graham | Don't road warriors carry laptops with them? :) | 22-Sep-08 23:00 |
| 1730 | Kaj | On the first conference we were invited to a 3D virtual worlds conference tomorrow in Amsterdam, with the ex CEO of Linden Labs and a university developing OpenCroquet speaking :-) | 22-Sep-08 22:59 |
| 1729 | Kaj | Not. I'm still on the road | 22-Sep-08 22:57 |
| 1728 | Graham | How's the dovecot port going? :) | 22-Sep-08 22:48 |
| 1727 | Kaj | Yeah :-) | 22-Sep-08 22:48 |
| 1726 | Graham | or Robert can switch to using vmware. | 22-Sep-08 22:47 |
| 1725 | Kaj | It will be extra work to figure this out, so it will take me some more time | 22-Sep-08 22:47 |
| 1724 | Kaj | I think a Xen image would require the Syllable Server installation to support Xen in the kernel. Is that correct? | 22-Sep-08 22:46 |
| 1723 | Kaj | What we have been producing so far are VMware images that can be used in several virtualisers, with an unchanged Syllable Server installation | 22-Sep-08 22:45 |
| 1722 | Kaj | Uhm, I'll have to find out how to make that, first :-) | 22-Sep-08 22:44 |
| 1721 | Robert | Kaj, please make a XEN DomU out of it. I will give it immediatly a try. I'm searching for a base distro that can be used to create a complete application stack. | 19-Sep-08 6:58 |
| 1720 | Kaj | Getting good responses on the conferences | 18-Sep-08 21:55 |
| 1719 | Kaj | Haven't had for years, but will have to make time for it now | 18-Sep-08 21:55 |
| 1718 | Kaj | Doing it all properly :-) | 18-Sep-08 21:54 |
| 1717 | Graham | do you have time for a day job? | 18-Sep-08 21:54 |
| 1716 | Graham | interesting | 18-Sep-08 21:53 |
| 1715 | Kaj | No, REBOL/Services | 18-Sep-08 21:53 |
| 1714 | Graham | A rebol gui thru ssh to the server? | 18-Sep-08 21:52 |
| 1713 | Kaj | Syllable GUI on Desktop, maybe a remote REBOL GUI on Server | 18-Sep-08 21:51 |
| 1712 | Graham | so, no gui then? | 18-Sep-08 21:51 |
| 1711 | Kaj | A new ORCA one, combined with Syllable Desktop | 18-Sep-08 21:50 |
| 1710 | Graham | will you write an orca installer? Or rebol one? | 18-Sep-08 21:49 |
| 1709 | Kaj | The installer. It just doesn't exist :-) | 18-Sep-08 21:48 |
| 1708 | Graham | didn't take out what? | 18-Sep-08 21:48 |
| 1707 | Kaj | I know. I didn't take it out, though | 18-Sep-08 21:46 |
| 1706 | Graham | well, until the vm is released :) | 18-Sep-08 21:46 |
| 1705 | Graham | no installer will put people off! | 18-Sep-08 21:46 |
| 1704 | Kaj | Much less than for Desktop, but not too shabby for a console server without an installer | 18-Sep-08 21:45 |
| 1703 | Kaj | Around 500 at a rough estimate so far | 18-Sep-08 21:45 |
| 1702 | Graham | Had ,many downloads? | 18-Sep-08 21:34 |
| 1701 | Kaj | Porting and configuring Dovecot and RebelBB will take some time, anyway | 18-Sep-08 21:33 |
| 1700 | Kaj | No, I'm out visiting several conferences to promote Syllable Server. Giving a talk on Saturday | 18-Sep-08 21:32 |
| 1699 | Graham | A server appliance ready yet? | 18-Sep-08 21:29 |
| 1698 | Kaj | I don't think it's ever going to be a full clone, because REBOL keeps developing | 17-Sep-08 9:07 |
| 1697 | Kaj | Karl sporadically makes bug fixes. I will start doing that, too, and enhancements, when I get to it | 17-Sep-08 9:06 |
| 1696 | Kaj | I know. :-) | 17-Sep-08 9:05 |
| 1695 | Robert | So how close are you for a full Rebol clone? | 17-Sep-08 9:05 |
| 1694 | Robert | Should have read: still being developed. | 17-Sep-08 9:05 |
| 1693 | Kaj | Yes. It's certainly not finished :-) | 17-Sep-08 9:04 |
| 1692 | Robert | Is ORCA still in development? | 17-Sep-08 8:54 |
| 1691 | Kaj | Yeah, should get us some attention | 17-Sep-08 8:53 |
| 1690 | Graham | That's great. | 17-Sep-08 8:37 |
| 1689 | Kaj | http://distrowatch.com/syllable | 17-Sep-08 8:28 |
| 1688 | Kaj | By the way, I got us on DistroWatch, the main index of Linux distributions: | 17-Sep-08 8:28 |
| 1687 | Kaj | Yeah, it's the standard S3Sync tool that's included. Read the Server manual for an example of backing up a directory | 17-Sep-08 8:27 |
| 1686 | Graham | so, do you have a ruby script that backs up the server data to S3? | 17-Sep-08 1:45 |
| 1685 | Kaj | Oh, ORCA takes about 450 KB, including the library and the documentation | 16-Sep-08 23:40 |
| 1684 | Kaj | In contrast, Ruby, which is only there for an Amazon S3 script, and which is one of the smallest popular languages, takes 11 MB | 16-Sep-08 23:27 |
| 1683 | Kaj | So there are not likely to be any Server versions with the REBOL stuff left out :-) | 16-Sep-08 23:24 |
| 1682 | Kaj | The rest is just tens of kilobytes | 16-Sep-08 23:21 |
| 1681 | Kaj | Cheyenne and QuarterMaster combined are 520 KB | 16-Sep-08 23:21 |
| 1680 | Kaj | REBOL/Core is 700 KB and that includes rebbase and a bit of documentation | 16-Sep-08 23:20 |
| 1679 | Kaj | The REBOL goodies are tiny, of course | 16-Sep-08 23:19 |
| 1678 | Kaj | In any case, the regular Syllable Server is meant to be full-featured | 16-Sep-08 23:17 |
| 1677 | Kaj | I'm sure someone could think up a scanning server. :-) Document archiving or in an embedded device or so | 16-Sep-08 23:17 |
| 1676 | Graham | what is scanning doing in a server build? | 16-Sep-08 21:09 |
| 1675 | Henrik | How much do the REBOL goodies take up? | 16-Sep-08 17:54 |
| 1674 | Kaj | That's with all the REBOL goodies still in :-) | 16-Sep-08 17:15 |
| 1673 | Kaj | Did the first build run of a stripped Syllable Server last night. Worked right away. Stripping out things such as printing and scanning reduced the footprint from 370 MB to under 250 | 16-Sep-08 17:15 |