REBOL3 - Syllable (The free desktop and server operating system [web-public])

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1972KajIt means we've also been in the PCPlus print magazine. Michael has been writing us up for years in the Linux Format magazine23-Dec-09 5:05
1971KajOh, that's Mike Saunders, our regular reporter, but this is the first time I see him writing here22-Dec-09 22:11
1970KajAh cool - or maybe not :-)22-Dec-09 22:07
1969AlanKaj: you got a mention here : 21:51
1968Kaj 16:09
1967KajPublished the R3 "port" on OSNews:21-Dec-09 16:09
1966KajThere's more information about this in the startup menu, on our download page and in our FAQ15-Dec-09 15:19
1965PaulI didn't Kaj, I will try again.15-Dec-09 0:59
1964KajIf you don't feed it the VMware image, you must at least choose the VirtualBox installation option14-Dec-09 17:15
1963KajVirtualBox is weird, though; it works less well than VMware and QEmu14-Dec-09 17:14
1962KajYes, did you download our VMware image?14-Dec-09 17:13
1961PaulTried to load syllable on virtualbox yesterday. Does syllable support virtual clients?14-Dec-09 12:45
1960GrahamI don't have an ARM based PC yet .. but that is going to be my next purchase :)13-Dec-09 22:49
1959KajGraham, I intend to port Server to ARM, but it's only a plan right now13-Dec-09 22:44
1958KajBrian, yes, we need LGPL compatibility, but for even deeper reasons13-Dec-09 22:42
1957KajAgain, it will depend on what you install on it, but there are no gross background processes going on such as on other systems13-Dec-09 22:41
1956KajIt's just the standard system logging going on, but there's no specific support such as an SSD filesystem13-Dec-09 22:40
1955KajOh, flash. Syllable Desktop is very silent in terms of disk writes, and Server doesn't carry many more processes13-Dec-09 22:39
1954GrahamI think I read somewhere that some of these linuces are optimized to reduce disk writes ...13-Dec-09 22:37
1953GrahamDoes it need to write to disk frequently?13-Dec-09 22:36
1952KajWhat's the context for NAND?13-Dec-09 22:36
1951KajI'm running a number of websites on Cheyenne fairly comfortably within 64 MB13-Dec-09 22:35
1950KajOn a 192 MB machine, it starts up using 13 MB. On a 768 MB machine, it uses 21 MB for itself13-Dec-09 22:35
1949KajDepends greatly on where you load it and what you run13-Dec-09 22:34
1948GrahamHow well does it treat NAND ?13-Dec-09 22:34
1947GrahamAnd ram requirements?13-Dec-09 22:33
1946KajIf you're talking about Syllable Server, that is 370 MB installed for the 0.3 version. It is currently growing, but I also did a test build for a stripped cloud server that was around 250 MB13-Dec-09 22:32
1945Graham( shame ..all these plug computers which are being used as stealth servers are using ARM processors )13-Dec-09 22:32
1944BrianHWell, the R3 host code license needs to allow LGPL licensed hosts - that is what I was talking about earlier. If there are restrictions in the host code license that would prevent that, it would be a problem for platforms like Syllable with LGPL libraries.13-Dec-09 22:31
1943Grahamwhat's the smallest server footprint in mb?13-Dec-09 22:31
1942KajAnd no, there is only Syllable for 32 bit Intel13-Dec-09 22:29
1941KajWhen Ohloh analysed our code, it turned out we're predominantly LGPL. (While Haiku, which chose to be MIT, is predominantly GPL in practice)13-Dec-09 22:29
1940KajThe applications are GPL, because noone needs to build on them, anyway13-Dec-09 22:28
1939BrianHAh, the libraries. That fits then.13-Dec-09 22:28
1938KajThe Syllable libraries are LGPL, so that it is a platform for all software. This includes GNU's C library13-Dec-09 22:27
1937GrahamDoes syllable run on ARM v5 instruction set?13-Dec-09 22:27
1936BrianHNo, project abandonment.13-Dec-09 22:26
1935KajThere was NO LICENSE ABANDONMENT13-Dec-09 22:26
1934BrianHHim disappearing.13-Dec-09 22:26
1933BrianHThat is what I meant by "abandoned".13-Dec-09 22:25
1932KajNO: it was always like this13-Dec-09 22:25
1931BrianHSo he relicensed as LGPL? Good for him :)13-Dec-09 22:25
1930KajSyllable was the result of him simply disappearing13-Dec-09 22:25
1929Maximok, but part of the point for me is that the license isn't yet finalized and a direct discussion between you and Carl, is going to be much more effective at making the host suitable to your needs than us assuming and argumenting about it.

Contrary to what many might think, Carl is quite open to suggestions. When the case and reasoning for it is founded and logical, he has rarely been, if ever, at odds with anything I've suggested.

13-Dec-09 22:24
1928KajWhat he said was that he would abandon it in favour of BSD if the GPL zealots kept nagging him13-Dec-09 22:24
1927BrianHI guess I didn't recall correctly. I remrmber that the original developer of Atheos used the GPL to prevent anyone from making commercial clones of his operating system, then abandoned it. Syllable was the result of that. I guess I remember wrong.13-Dec-09 22:23
1926KajWhen you say "LGPL", it will echo "GPL" in the heads of free software zealots and "evil" in the heads of anti free software zealots13-Dec-09 22:22
1925KajWe didn't switch; it was always like this13-Dec-09 22:21
1924BrianHWasn't Syllable derived from Atheos, which was GPL iirc? How did yo manage to switch to LGPL?13-Dec-09 22:21
1923KajThe project almost exploded over it two years ago, and I've been in dire straits since13-Dec-09 22:19
1922KajTo the contrary, it's extremely important to Syllable13-Dec-09 22:18
1921Maximgoing OT we are in syllable group, and I think now is not the time for a license debate.13-Dec-09 22:14
1920Maximthe point of the host is not to start your own rebol, but to allow rebol to work in your stuff. that, I think, should be emphasized within the documentation/web site when it will all be official and "a product".13-Dec-09 22:12
1919BrianHClones are good if they don't fork the development effort. As long as clone code can be reintegrated into the original, cool.13-Dec-09 22:11
1918BrianHThough that would be bad on principle, in practice we don't want to encourage cloning - it could lead to dividing the community. It's better to cooperate than to compete in this case. The main license restriction that would hurt us is anything that would prevent us from cloning the host code, since that is basically what every host code port is.13-Dec-09 22:07
1917PekrI think that many ppl will be disappointed by licences. There's some hint already in Host related wiki document ... imo the licence will prevent R3 Clone DLL to work with host .... but I would be glad if it would not be so ...13-Dec-09 21:52
1916KajYes13-Dec-09 21:45
1915BrianHI mean architecturally compatible: Dynamic linking with a clean integration interface.13-Dec-09 21:44
1914KajThat will depend on the still-to-be-revealed two licenses13-Dec-09 21:42
1913BrianHDepending on linking issues, of course. Fortunately the R3 host kit seems to be compatible with that linking model :)13-Dec-09 21:03
1912KajYup13-Dec-09 20:22
1911Maximok. LGPL is a "fair" license. if you edit others work, you help them back, but your not *forced* to have them leverage your work for free13-Dec-09 20:22
1910KajLGPL, mainly, so you can run closed software on it13-Dec-09 20:21
1909KajIf you could settle for an FTP server you could try Desktop, but you can't trust your files to be safe13-Dec-09 20:20
1908Maximis syllable GPL or MIT/BSD ?13-Dec-09 20:20
1907KajYup13-Dec-09 20:20
1906Maxim(once I have a bit more C/C++ under my belt, I might see if that's at all possible).13-Dec-09 20:20
1905Maximwould be nice to try to get the latest mesa project running on it with the gallium driver model. that would get you HW accelerated gfx without the need for your own HW drivers.13-Dec-09 20:18
1904Maximthe reason I want to try out syllable is that it seems to align with much of the sane Amiga principles while sheding those which seemed more closely related to religion.13-Dec-09 20:16
1903KajI did just get the OpenSSH server going on Desktop. A long standing request from these server operators13-Dec-09 20:16
1902KajWas slashdotted several times without going down13-Dec-09 20:15
1901KajDunno, at least this one is not business critical. A decade ago, Syllable's forerunner was already running as a public web/FTP/CVS server13-Dec-09 20:15
1900Maximanother mad mad ;-)13-Dec-09 20:14
1899KajThere is someone running a public web server on Desktop - on his own web server in his own language13-Dec-09 20:13
1898Maximthe first is as fast as a bee stuck in molasses, while the later, well it just sucks. ;-)13-Dec-09 20:13
1897Maximhahahahah I want a clean desktop to run the management on... I really don't like the linux KDE and Gnome desktops.13-Dec-09 20:12
1896KajWhy is it that you build a desktop OS, and everyone immediately wants to run a server with it? :-)13-Dec-09 20:11
1895Maximok, well I'll give it a good testing when I get that extra machine setup.13-Dec-09 20:11
1894KajThat's why I built Syllable Server as a companion13-Dec-09 20:11
1893KajI seem to remember our founder tested the server, too, but in any case, it's not well tested13-Dec-09 20:10
1892KajYes, Samba is long ported, but only the client, in principle13-Dec-09 20:10
1891Maximehehe13-Dec-09 20:09
1890Maximis there a way to install/compile something like SMB on it?13-Dec-09 20:09
1889KajI told you we declared him and his boss mad13-Dec-09 20:09
1888KajAnd I/O speed is not very good, but it works13-Dec-09 20:09
1887KajI'm trying to say: no Windows clients, other than Syllable-on-Windows13-Dec-09 20:08
1886KajBut the clients were Syllable Desktop running in VMs on Windows. That's how the client app was distributed - also to customers13-Dec-09 20:07
1885MaximI/O *speed* that is...13-Dec-09 20:07
1884KajYes, the Desktop DVD server was churning through thousands of network accesses per day, from something in the order of five to ten clients, I think13-Dec-09 20:07
1883MaximIs file I/O comparable to Linux? Does it support windows client connections out of the box?13-Dec-09 20:07
1882KajWell, Desktop has its own file server design, so you'd have to port the client to your Mac and Windows13-Dec-09 20:05
1881BrianHWas the DVD factory running multi-user?13-Dec-09 20:05
1880MaximI want to setup a file server box at home but don't want windows, nor mac for that. the first sucks at file handling itself, the seconds well, its file explorer is just unproductive and even dangerous to use.13-Dec-09 20:04
1879KajNevertheless, the DVD factory ran13-Dec-09 20:04
1878KajBut we declared him mad, just like Maxim and his REBOL C compiler :-)13-Dec-09 20:04
1877BrianHSpeed isn't everything - you can test functionality in a VM.13-Dec-09 20:03
1876KajThere is, or at least was, a DVD factory in Denmark running on it13-Dec-09 20:03
1875Maximhow does syllable desktop compare as a multi-user file server?13-Dec-09 20:03
1874KajThe only good point would be if Syllable doesn't support the hardware, but that's more a concern with Haiku13-Dec-09 20:03
1873KajThere's also no point in it for trying Syllable, because all the speed will be sucked up by the VM13-Dec-09 20:01
1872MaximI've had a lot of grief with networkind through vms13-Dec-09 20:01
1871KajReal men run on bare metal :-)13-Dec-09 20:00
1870GrahamJust run it as a vm13-Dec-09 19:59
1869MaximI also liked what I saw of Haiku.

I do plan on trying out syllable in the not too distant future... basically when I'll build myself a linux machine, I'll make a few different boot partitions on that machine, one will be syllable :-)

13-Dec-09 19:54
1868PekrNext hobby OS could be Haiku, AmigaOS 4 ....13-Dec-09 19:51
1867BrianHDifferent kernel, for one thing. Syllable Desktop has nothing to do with Linux. Server is the Syllable user space on the Linux kernel.13-Dec-09 19:38
1866RobertHow is the Desktop different to Linux?13-Dec-09 19:37
1865KajPlus 40+ extra Linux distros, of course...13-Dec-09 18:05
1864KajAs with R2, Carl will still need to build on 40+ platforms13-Dec-09 18:04
1863Maxim' :-/13-Dec-09 18:04
1862KajTo illustrate how exact this needs to be: there are currently two host builds for Linux: on Ubuntu and on Fedora. The Fedora-built library doesn't work on Syllable Desktop13-Dec-09 18:03
1861KajSymlinking the required library versions sufficed to get it to work13-Dec-09 18:02
1860KajR3 depends on the C library so far, and although the same library is used the versioning of those libraries is different between Linux and Syllable Desktop (and thus also between Syllable Server and Syllable Desktop)13-Dec-09 18:01
1859KajWell, except in this case of Syllable Desktop, because it is very well aligned with Linux13-Dec-09 17:59
1858KajRunning on the same CPU architecture with the same machine instructions is also just that. Those machine instructions call system functions, so you need to provide those on the target system13-Dec-09 17:58
1857KajThe same goes for a static library (which would be called .a on most systems). There are still system dependent machine instructions in them13-Dec-09 17:56
1856KajThe format of the binary is just that: the format. Even if many systems use ELF these days, the machine code instructions you store in that format are still very different13-Dec-09 17:55
1855Maximhe told me that the host will be available as a .lib eventually. (my guess is that will probably be the sdk).13-Dec-09 17:55
1854Maximbut using .so files doesn't depend on linux does it? as long as the cpu matches... you should be able to connect into .so files (ifthe stack method used, corresponds obviously)13-Dec-09 17:54
1853KajMost people seem to think that when Carl says the R3 library is portable, this means you need only one binary. This is not true at all13-Dec-09 17:53
1852KajNo, Syllable Desktop is not a Linux system at all13-Dec-09 17:52
1851Maximah, I realize that you mean the format of the library used by syllable isn't normally linux .so files?13-Dec-09 17:52
1850KajWhy it isn't supposed to work?13-Dec-09 17:51
1849Maximwhy not?13-Dec-09 17:50
1848KajThe R3 core library hasn't been ported to Desktop yet, but I'm using one of the Linux-built libraries as is, through a trick13-Dec-09 17:50
1847KajDesktop is the wiley one, because it isn't supposed to work at all :-)13-Dec-09 17:49
1846KajGot R3 running through the host build on both Syllable Desktop and Syllable Server13-Dec-09 17:48
1845KajThanks!24-Nov-09 0:50
1844GeomolI really wish, I had more time, so I could also try this out. Well, hopefully some day, I'll see this in action.24-Nov-09 0:09
1843GreggExcellent news Kaj!23-Nov-09 23:58
1842KajUsing Cheyenne to run tens of websites here, including Try REBOL23-Nov-09 22:39
1841KajWith X11 you could also run View now, but the X11 installation process is currently a lot of work23-Nov-09 22:38
1840Grahamcheyenne I guess is okay?23-Nov-09 22:38
1839KajBeen included with Syllable Server since the beginning, a few years now23-Nov-09 22:38
1838GrahamAnd rebol 2?23-Nov-09 22:37
1837KajI don' t think it' s in Nix23-Nov-09 22:37
1836KajSure, if you compile it23-Nov-09 22:37
1835GrahamCan it run Hylafax ?23-Nov-09 22:32
1834KajI ported Nix as extra package manager and used that to install X1123-Nov-09 22:05
1833KajIt has now :-)23-Nov-09 22:05
1832Grahameh??? syllable server has a gui?23-Nov-09 19:34
1831KajI am connected running AltME on Syllable Server now23-Nov-09 18:58
1830KajSoftware OpenGL should be possible on SDL, though, for testing or low speed requirements21-Oct-09 12:43
1829Maximok21-Oct-09 12:42
1828KajSo it looks like for some time to come, you will still need X11 for hardware accelerated OpenGL21-Oct-09 12:41
1827KajThere's an old OpenGL extension that was revived a year ago and then again not updated. If it works, it probably only supports hardware acceleration on one old video chip21-Oct-09 12:40
1826KajDirectFB 2, with OpenGL support, still seems to be just a plan21-Oct-09 12:38
1825KajMaxim, the OpenGL situation in DirectFB is still quite unclear21-Oct-09 12:38
1824KajOn the other hand, VirtualBox is weird. VMware and QEmu often give better results17-May-09 18:00
1823KajYes. We have some conflicting reports about it, but it should work, using the boot entry we supply for it17-May-09 17:58
1822BrianHIs running in VirtualBox tested?17-May-09 16:07
1821Kaj 14:54
1820KajHere's the announcement on OSNews:17-May-09 14:52
1819KajMany bugs were fixed, including several regressions from earlier releases. The window decorators don't destabilise the system anymore. The installation procedure is greatly enhanced with options to fix hardware support problems. The native web browser is replaced with Webster, based on a newer version of the WebKit engine. Many enhancements were made to standards support, leading, among others, to the ability to run QEmu - so now you can run virtual machines. The documentation was improved and several translations were added. Read more in the full release notes: ISO CD images, (VMware) emulator images, an upgrade pack and documentation are available from the download page: Extra software is available here: 14:51
1818KajIt's taken a long time this time, but we released Syllable Desktop 0.6.617-May-09 14:49
1817KajThanks10-Nov-08 16:29
1816GreggVery cool Kaj.10-Nov-08 6:00
1815KajIf anyone here wants a test account on it, let me know10-Nov-08 3:02
1814KajIt's running Cheyenne, possibly with QuarterMaster, FTP and an SSH server10-Nov-08 3:01
1813KajThe server is just a P3 650 MHz with 128 MB memory and an old 8 GB disk10-Nov-08 2:59
1812KajThanks. We made sure it would by having static pages, but on the other hand, the connection is not overly powerful at 10 Mb/s10-Nov-08 2:58
1811AntonPage loads nice and quick.10-Nov-08 2:56
1810KajIt was already made with my REBOL CMS10-Nov-08 2:05
1809Kaj 2:04
1808KajThe Dutch website of Software Freedom Day is now running on Syllable Server and Cheyenne:10-Nov-08 2:04
1807KajBut that currently has a nasty binary incompatibility, so if you get it installed, you may not be able to run some other software28-Oct-08 21:19
1806KajIn any case, if you want to try you need our development build28-Oct-08 21:18
1805KajYes, that, too28-Oct-08 21:17
1804BrianHAssuming that interface is bootable on the computer in question, or course.28-Oct-08 21:17
1803KajIf it is connected through a USB interface, like on the Asus EeePC for example, you may hit bugs in our USB support28-Oct-08 21:16
1802KajIf it is connected through an IDE interface, it should work just like a hard disk28-Oct-08 21:15
1801KajDepends28-Oct-08 21:15
1800OldesIs it possible to install Syllable on bootable SD card?28-Oct-08 19:02
1799KajYes, I may have mentioned JeOS here. It's been out for about a year3-Oct-08 19:10
1798GrahamLooks like Ubuntu are aiming at the vm hosting platform as well 6:20
1797KajWhich ones have all the REBOL stuff integrated?30-Sep-08 0:02
1796Grahamcalled living on the edge :)29-Sep-08 8:03
1795Grahamgot a point there!29-Sep-08 8:03
1794PekrGraham - why would you not use some linux distro out there? This is nothing against Syllable, but if they are mostly beta, there is plenty of Linux distros out there, no? Even some small and stripped down ones ...29-Sep-08 7:14
1793Grahamwrong continent29-Sep-08 3:29
1792KajYou could play the snake, divide the Indians among themselves and run the Boa web server. :-) We have a build recipe for it29-Sep-08 3:29
1791GrahamPlease do ... I'll wait till then ... as I don't want any arrows in my back!29-Sep-08 3:28
1790KajSyllable Server should be fairly easy to install on Slicehost. It is my first target for running my own cloud server, so when I get to that I will write specific instructions29-Sep-08 3:27
1789KajIf you want to run PHP on Cheyenne, you have to patch it according to the Cheyenne instructions29-Sep-08 3:26
1788KajYou could install Apache for PHP according to the Syllable Server manual29-Sep-08 3:25
1787KajWe have a build recipe for PHP, which standardises the procedure, but I haven't tried it on Syllable Server yet29-Sep-08 3:25
1786KajYes, according to the regular instructions of a package for Linux29-Sep-08 3:24
1785Grahamso, you have to compile yourself ?29-Sep-08 3:23
1784KajSyllable Server can basically run anything Linux can run, but for many things there are no binary packages yet29-Sep-08 3:23
1783Kaj 3:22
1782KajSyllable is now also listed in the distributions list of LWN:29-Sep-08 3:22
1781GrahamAnd can syllable be installed on to such places as slicehost ?29-Sep-08 3:09
1780GrahamCan Syllable run things like vbulletin ? Needs php and mysql29-Sep-08 1:23
1779Grahamahhh....24-Sep-08 1:52
1778BrianHOn this laptop I already have 4 virtual network adapters, 2 physical, 1 bridge, one DHCP service and 1 NAT. Adding VirtualBox would mean adding 1 more virtual adapter, 1 bridge or Internet Connection Sharing (another DHCP/NAT service), either of which I would have to reconnect manually depending on which physical adapter I am using.24-Sep-08 1:26
1777BrianHHow many virtual network adapters do I need to configure? How many bridges? How many DHCP and NAT services?24-Sep-08 1:22
1776Grahamit only takes up hard drive space!24-Sep-08 1:20
1775BrianHI don't want to - I have enough overhead as it is.24-Sep-08 1:18
1774Grahamyou can co-install virtualbox24-Sep-08 1:17
1773BrianHI tend to need the Server stuff more (auto startup, headless operation, remote console), so I don't use VirtualBox myself, nor do I have an available computer on which I can install VirtualBox, since all compatible computers I own have VMware Server installed, even this laptop.24-Sep-08 1:16
1772BrianHThose thicker VirtualBox guest additions make the guest a more civilized client of the host OS, but without them it doesn't work well.24-Sep-08 1:13
1771KajIt just needs one or two kernel boot options that aren't on the current install CD. He should read the VirtualBox section in our FAQ, or use the development build24-Sep-08 1:13
1770BrianHI told him that you had said that the installer doesn't work very well.24-Sep-08 1:12
1769BrianHInstall CD I think. It seems to me that different VM platforms require thinner or thicker guest additions. VirtualBox seems to require more out of its guest code, and works quite badly without it. VMware doesn't require as much out of its guest code, so that code is easier to implement, and the VM works OK without it.24-Sep-08 1:11
1768KajThe install CD or the live CD?24-Sep-08 1:10
1767BrianHHe tried Syllable Desktop.24-Sep-08 1:09
1766shadwolfI mean in the scope of closed hardwar unstandard etc... pda and portable consoles like PSP or DS are a master scale24-Sep-08 1:03
1765shadwolfyes ... ans PSP is worst than a eee PC ...24-Sep-08 1:02
1764KajSome ideas take many months to implement24-Sep-08 0:59
1763shadwolfho ok sorry forget it ;P that was a joke24-Sep-08 0:59
1762shadwolfok so here is another idea Syllabe on PSP as Homebrew ?24-Sep-08 0:59
1761shadwolfnow as he is not a specialist he can't tell me if it's ubuntu suport the sound properly or the intenal webcam24-Sep-08 0:58
1760shadwolfhum my bro have a eee pc 1000 H and the only problem he face is with wifi and he is absolutly not a computer specialist. This can be solved by ndiswraper or madwifi patching it24-Sep-08 0:56
1759KajVarious Linux distros have a hard time supporting the EeePC, too24-Sep-08 0:55
1758shadwolfI remember the old days when i was in university 10 years ago and i was animating linux install parties with april association ... that was always a pain to install linux on laptop24-Sep-08 0:53
1757shadwolfdeviant you mean more or less than usual laptop muwwwwwwwahahahahaha ...24-Sep-08 0:52
1756KajAlphe, EeePC is weird, too. It has some deviating hardware parts, so we don't support all hardware, yet. The shipped Xandros Linux also has some strange characteristics that make it hard to install other systems24-Sep-08 0:50
1755KajWhat were the symptoms and failure messages?24-Sep-08 0:46
1754KajDid he try Syllable Desktop or Syllable Server?24-Sep-08 0:46
1753KajIt should work, though, but did he use the VirtualBox boot option?24-Sep-08 0:46
1752KajVirtualBox is weird. It has problems running Syllable and it has bad performance characteristics24-Sep-08 0:45
1751BrianHHe has a recent enough processor that it has virtualization extensions, so VirtualBox isn't bad on it.23-Sep-08 19:14
1750BrianHA friend of mine was having difficulty installing Syllable the other day. He runs VirtualBox, because he has had more luck with that than VMware Server. I explained why there would be differences between the two, but it would still be nice for both to be supported. I realize that there is not as much point to supporting VirtualBox as it is more like VMware Workstation, not Server. Still, it has better memory allocation characteristics than VMware.23-Sep-08 19:13
1749shadwolfkaj asus EEE PC is your friend ^^23-Sep-08 1:04
1748Grahamok22-Sep-08 23:07
1747KajThey're all very interested22-Sep-08 23:06
1746KajEveryone I met on the conferences is building applications out of multiple diverse open source parts. I'm offering all of them to solve their integration issues by taking the boring parts out of their hands and integrating them in a custom Linux platform22-Sep-08 23:06
1745KajSo it will still be a challenge to offer them REBOL solutions22-Sep-08 23:05
1744GrahamI meant Syllable22-Sep-08 23:04
1743KajVirtual worlds are 3D these days22-Sep-08 23:04
1742Grahamso, what's the relationship to 3D?22-Sep-08 23:04
1741KajI explained to them that REBOL is symbol based versus Smalltalk being object based, which makes it fundamentally more suitable for DSLs, and they understood right away22-Sep-08 23:03
1740GrahamI guess they couldn't decide which platform to use22-Sep-08 23:03
1739KajI agree, and I thought of the irony that people in Amsterdam want everything to happen in Amsterdam22-Sep-08 23:02
1738Mcheanwhat did you think?22-Sep-08 23:02
1737KajYup22-Sep-08 23:02
1736Mcheanopencroquet? the squeak project?22-Sep-08 23:01
1735KajThey're nice for running Syllable and REBOL, though, and demoing their efficiency22-Sep-08 23:01
1734Grahama conference on virtual worlds should have their conference in a virtual world22-Sep-08 23:01
1733KajYeah, but ten year old laptops take a week to compile a modern Linux distro22-Sep-08 23:01
1732Kajhttp://www.eduverse.org22-Sep-08 23:00
1731GrahamDon't road warriors carry laptops with them? :)22-Sep-08 23:00
1730KajOn the first conference we were invited to a 3D virtual worlds conference tomorrow in Amsterdam, with the ex CEO of Linden Labs and a university developing OpenCroquet speaking :-)22-Sep-08 22:59
1729KajNot. I'm still on the road22-Sep-08 22:57
1728GrahamHow's the dovecot port going? :)22-Sep-08 22:48
1727KajYeah :-)22-Sep-08 22:48
1726Grahamor Robert can switch to using vmware.22-Sep-08 22:47
1725KajIt will be extra work to figure this out, so it will take me some more time22-Sep-08 22:47
1724KajI think a Xen image would require the Syllable Server installation to support Xen in the kernel. Is that correct?22-Sep-08 22:46
1723KajWhat we have been producing so far are VMware images that can be used in several virtualisers, with an unchanged Syllable Server installation22-Sep-08 22:45
1722KajUhm, I'll have to find out how to make that, first :-)22-Sep-08 22:44
1721RobertKaj, please make a XEN DomU out of it. I will give it immediatly a try. I'm searching for a base distro that can be used to create a complete application stack.19-Sep-08 6:58
1720KajGetting good responses on the conferences18-Sep-08 21:55
1719KajHaven't had for years, but will have to make time for it now18-Sep-08 21:55
1718KajDoing it all properly :-)18-Sep-08 21:54
1717Grahamdo you have time for a day job?18-Sep-08 21:54
1716Grahaminteresting18-Sep-08 21:53
1715KajNo, REBOL/Services18-Sep-08 21:53
1714GrahamA rebol gui thru ssh to the server?18-Sep-08 21:52
1713KajSyllable GUI on Desktop, maybe a remote REBOL GUI on Server18-Sep-08 21:51
1712Grahamso, no gui then?18-Sep-08 21:51
1711KajA new ORCA one, combined with Syllable Desktop18-Sep-08 21:50
1710Grahamwill you write an orca installer? Or rebol one?18-Sep-08 21:49
1709KajThe installer. It just doesn't exist :-)18-Sep-08 21:48
1708Grahamdidn't take out what?18-Sep-08 21:48
1707KajI know. I didn't take it out, though18-Sep-08 21:46
1706Grahamwell, until the vm is released :)18-Sep-08 21:46
1705Grahamno installer will put people off!18-Sep-08 21:46
1704KajMuch less than for Desktop, but not too shabby for a console server without an installer18-Sep-08 21:45
1703KajAround 500 at a rough estimate so far18-Sep-08 21:45
1702GrahamHad ,many downloads?18-Sep-08 21:34
1701KajPorting and configuring Dovecot and RebelBB will take some time, anyway18-Sep-08 21:33
1700KajNo, I'm out visiting several conferences to promote Syllable Server. Giving a talk on Saturday18-Sep-08 21:32
1699GrahamA server appliance ready yet?18-Sep-08 21:29
1698KajI don't think it's ever going to be a full clone, because REBOL keeps developing17-Sep-08 9:07
1697KajKarl sporadically makes bug fixes. I will start doing that, too, and enhancements, when I get to it17-Sep-08 9:06
1696KajI know. :-)17-Sep-08 9:05
1695RobertSo how close are you for a full Rebol clone?17-Sep-08 9:05
1694RobertShould have read: still being developed.17-Sep-08 9:05
1693KajYes. It's certainly not finished :-)17-Sep-08 9:04
1692RobertIs ORCA still in development?17-Sep-08 8:54
1691KajYeah, should get us some attention17-Sep-08 8:53
1690GrahamThat's great.17-Sep-08 8:37
1689Kaj 8:28
1688KajBy the way, I got us on DistroWatch, the main index of Linux distributions:17-Sep-08 8:28
1687KajYeah, it's the standard S3Sync tool that's included. Read the Server manual for an example of backing up a directory17-Sep-08 8:27
1686Grahamso, do you have a ruby script that backs up the server data to S3?17-Sep-08 1:45
1685KajOh, ORCA takes about 450 KB, including the library and the documentation16-Sep-08 23:40
1684KajIn contrast, Ruby, which is only there for an Amazon S3 script, and which is one of the smallest popular languages, takes 11 MB16-Sep-08 23:27
1683KajSo there are not likely to be any Server versions with the REBOL stuff left out :-)16-Sep-08 23:24
1682KajThe rest is just tens of kilobytes16-Sep-08 23:21
1681KajCheyenne and QuarterMaster combined are 520 KB16-Sep-08 23:21
1680KajREBOL/Core is 700 KB and that includes rebbase and a bit of documentation16-Sep-08 23:20
1679KajThe REBOL goodies are tiny, of course16-Sep-08 23:19
1678KajIn any case, the regular Syllable Server is meant to be full-featured16-Sep-08 23:17
1677KajI'm sure someone could think up a scanning server. :-) Document archiving or in an embedded device or so16-Sep-08 23:17
1676Grahamwhat is scanning doing in a server build?16-Sep-08 21:09
1675HenrikHow much do the REBOL goodies take up?16-Sep-08 17:54
1674KajThat's with all the REBOL goodies still in :-)16-Sep-08 17:15
1673KajDid the first build run of a stripped Syllable Server last night. Worked right away. Stripping out things such as printing and scanning reduced the footprint from 370 MB to under 25016-Sep-08 17:15

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