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3469KajOnly read about it. They're among the lowest-end netbooks, but interesting4-Jan-10 14:04
3468AntonOn the Free Software Foundation site I read about gNewSense linux based on Debian. The gNewSense Laptop and Netbook Guide

lists a laptop, the Lemote YeeLoong

Has anyone seen or tried this laptop?

4-Jan-10 13:10
3467Gabrielealternatively, you can configure the network manually :-)30-Dec-09 6:08
3466Gabrieleyou need to chroot and install more packages, I guess. you need to do an actual installation, and not just a bootstrap.30-Dec-09 6:08
3465KajSounds like half the infrastructure is missing. It's no wonder it doesn't work29-Dec-09 22:47
3464RobertIMO there is not a lot missing but I don't know how to fix it.29-Dec-09 19:14
3463RobertThe eth0 interface is there but has no IP address assigned, and route -n is empty.29-Dec-09 19:13
3462RobertI have spend most of the day to find out how to setup a network. I have done most things: - /etc/networks/interfaces has an entry for eth0 - /etc/networks strangly only contains if-up.d/ - I'm somehow missing /etc/init.d/networking but don't know how to install it or why it's missing29-Dec-09 19:13
3461RobertIs anyone familiar with the debootstrap process? I used it to setup a Lenny that I can use via CHROOT, which works. Now I want to make it bootable. I added it to GRUB and can boot into the version. But I can't get the network up & running.29-Dec-09 19:10
3460Pekrhas anyone written syntax hilighter for Gedit? (Default Gnome Editor)? I don't need it, but my friend who starts using REBOL asked, and I am not following this topic properly. So - in case you know someone who has it, please suggest :-)29-Dec-09 10:38
3459Oldesyes.. this one looks better :)23-Dec-09 0:25
3458KajUnpack it with ar similar to how tar works23-Dec-09 0:14
3457KajTry the .deb package that is closest to your Postfix version and Debian version23-Dec-09 0:14
3456Oldesit's probably wrong file.23-Dec-09 0:12
3455Oldeshm... I still have problems.. the file is missing LSB information :/23-Dec-09 0:09
3454KajI just found out that the .deb distribution packages are in a weird format: ancient ar format which contains a few .tar.gz files23-Dec-09 0:04
3453KajOh, the source. It's probably not a problem here, but it's a bit dangerous because the source file may need processing23-Dec-09 0:03
3452OldesI downloaded tar.gz22-Dec-09 23:58
3451KajDid you manage to unpack it?22-Dec-09 23:52
3450Oldesthanks.. I found it there:)22-Dec-09 23:49
3449KajIt's the only init script in the .deb packages22-Dec-09 23:47
3448KajInteresting catch 22, by the way22-Dec-09 23:46
3447Kaj 23:43
3446KajThen you can probably get it out of one of the original packages, such as here:22-Dec-09 23:43
3445Oldesoriginal22-Dec-09 23:42
3444KajWas that the original script or did you modify it?22-Dec-09 23:42
3443Oldesalso apt-get install postfix stops on trying to run the script.22-Dec-09 23:41
3442OldesCan't do nothing as everything stops on trying to stop the service using the script which does not exists22-Dec-09 23:40
3441KajCan't reinstall or can't reconfigure?22-Dec-09 23:38
3440OldesIs there someone using postfix under debian? I lost my /etc/init.d/postfix script I cannot find it anywhere... without the script I cannot even reinstall postfix:/22-Dec-09 23:37
3439GrahamI gave up .. setup ftp on the windows server and will use ftp on the linux side to send the files across as required.18-Dec-09 3:39
3438KajI don't know the specifics of current Samba versions, but it can't be far away in the documentation18-Dec-09 3:07
3437GrahamI'm logged on to the windows 2003 box as Administrator, but samba won't let me add Administrator as a samba user18-Dec-09 2:46
3436KajBut the issue can be any ot a whole series18-Dec-09 2:43
3435KajDepending on the rest of the configuration, you may have to sync those18-Dec-09 2:42
3434GrahamI guess the issue is that the windows user is not the samba user18-Dec-09 2:42
3433KajYou're layering two very different permission systems over each other, and that can be hellishy difficult18-Dec-09 2:39
3432KajShould just work, but the permissions need to be right, both in the Samba configuration and the underlying Unix file system18-Dec-09 2:38
3431GrahamAnyone know how to allow a windows user to deelete files off a samba share?18-Dec-09 1:54
3430MaximThe sad state is also that we have this strange and powerfull urge to feed... and working on software for free... is usually done by need, or Academia, cause they can.17-Dec-09 21:52
3429Pekrhmm, then I don't understand it ...17-Dec-09 21:51
3428KajI'm OK with people not contributing, but then they should keep their big mouths shut17-Dec-09 21:51
3427Maximon mac VLC is very usefull... it plays all the stuff Apple doesn't want you to look at ;-)

its actually one of the few softwares installed on my mac (I've only had to install 4 so far, 1 being a game I bought)

17-Dec-09 21:51
3426KajIt's just the sad state of human nature17-Dec-09 21:51
3425KajNo, every Mac user has VLC installed17-Dec-09 21:50
3424PekrKaj - but the overall situation of VLC might be a bit different, no? OS-X is kind of multimedia system. It uses iTunes, Quicktime, so maybe it is not problem of VLC community itself, but maybe just on OS-X, there is not enough of users interested in VLC?17-Dec-09 21:50
3423KajMaxim, it's to blame on the AI mongerers who implanted that thought in the public's mind in the previous century :-)17-Dec-09 21:49
3422PekrIf 10 ppl can spend 50, it might be enough for someone to do fix here or there ...17-Dec-09 21:48
3421KajWe actually find it uplifting, because it means things aren't as bad as it may seem for Syllable17-Dec-09 21:48
3420Maximpekr... one problem today is that people have come to an assumption that software programs itself. I don't know where that is coming from, but in ALL real projects...

at some point, you actually do have to raise your sleeves and put a little effort into it.

17-Dec-09 21:48
3419PekrI still think, that Amiga/MorphOS like bounties could be motivating factor for some ppl to pick-up and deliver some stuff for R3.17-Dec-09 21:48
3418PekrYes, that is sad (VLC)17-Dec-09 21:47
3417KajWord just came out that even the VLC project, one ot the most popular programs ever, doesn't even have any contributors left for the Mac version17-Dec-09 21:47
3416PekrNot everyone can code. But I proposed bounties. I sponsored 500USD for networking protocols ...17-Dec-09 21:46
3415KajThat would be excellent, because 20% of your users contributing would be phenomenal17-Dec-09 21:46
3414PekrYou see? I don't care. I can see it as an repetitive pattern, which is very wrong ... 80% of potential newcomers will NEVER actually care to implement anything themselves. I have seen the attitude with Gabriele, Holger, RT ... I hate it17-Dec-09 21:45
3413KajWell, here's the news: by releasing host code, Carl has just extended that principle to the C code, as well17-Dec-09 21:45
3412Pekr 21:44
3411KajI just analysed R3 code for you. How does that earn me an accusation of R2 mindset?17-Dec-09 21:44
3410KajProblem is, it's just complaining. You think it makes things go faster, but it doesn't17-Dec-09 21:44
3409PekrKaj - so stop using the wrong attitude ... you just fit old R2 mental model :-)17-Dec-09 21:43
3408KajWe know...17-Dec-09 21:43
3407PekrI don't care for coding, I prefer to complain around, until it gets fixed ...17-Dec-09 21:43
3406KajPetr, that is17-Dec-09 21:42
3405KajYes, I expect you to start coding now :-)17-Dec-09 21:42
3404Maximit had some quirks and evolved at almost every iteration of the language.17-Dec-09 21:42
3403Pekr1200 lines? uh :-)17-Dec-09 21:42
3402PekrBrianH is probably right, that because the code is part of host, we can fix it ourselves17-Dec-09 21:42
3401KajCarl once said that the C code for R2 CALL is 1200 lines. If he wasn't joking, he has saved 600-fold over that so far17-Dec-09 21:41
3400Pekrah ... well, how is that it worked with R2?17-Dec-09 21:41
3399PekrI am now surprised the implementation differs between the platforms. Call is one of necessary beta quality fixes ....17-Dec-09 21:41
3398KajMaxim is right that they are not bugs, but a very primitive implementation17-Dec-09 21:41
3397PekrCall has nasty bugs, which are in CC for quite some time. It is just general disagreement, on how Call should be implemented. BrianH stated, that it is now more low-level, and I objected, that I don't care, or it is not usefull for most use cases ...17-Dec-09 21:40
3396PekrMaxim - you are off once again ...17-Dec-09 21:39
3395KajProblem with the parameters is that the host interface will change when added later17-Dec-09 21:38
3394KajWell, quite a bit of extra consideration is needed here. There are no error codes returned, either17-Dec-09 21:37
3393Maximcall refinements would sit in well with something easily left for later.17-Dec-09 21:37
3392Maximits possible Carl left some things for further consideration... we did pressure him into releasing sooner than later.17-Dec-09 21:36
3391KajIt's not clear how you could use that to implement complex refinements such as /output17-Dec-09 21:35
3390Kajparameter, so presumably that would have to contain a code for the REBOL refinement17-Dec-09 21:33
3389Kajint reserved17-Dec-09 21:33
3388KajBoth have an extra17-Dec-09 21:33
3387Kajwith a constructed URL17-Dec-09 21:31
3386Kajsystem(cmd)17-Dec-09 21:31
3385KajOS_Browse does17-Dec-09 21:31
3384Kajsystem(call);17-Dec-09 21:30
3383KajOS_Create_Process simply does17-Dec-09 21:30
3382KajVery good :-)17-Dec-09 21:30
3381Maximhehehe I keep reminding... I just like to rub his face in it everytime he mentions R2 ;-)17-Dec-09 21:30
3380KajMaxim, I didn't want to remind Petr :-)17-Dec-09 21:29
3379KajAh, calls to the standard C system() function are in src/os/posix/host-lib.c17-Dec-09 21:29
3378Maximnow now pekr... I'll hold you to it... as you said before, everyone should use R3... ;-)17-Dec-09 21:29
3377Pekr... or stay with R2 :-)17-Dec-09 21:28
3376KajYou'll have to upgrade to Linux, Petr ;-)17-Dec-09 21:18
3375KajCALL having /WAIT hardwired is better than the reverse. Without /WAIT it's useless in most cases17-Dec-09 21:18
3374KajIf you're willing to test the host kit, I think Carl will be willing to bump the priority for other architectures17-Dec-09 21:13
3373KajSo far, R3 for Linux is only there for 32 bits x8617-Dec-09 21:12
3372Pekrmine is here - 15:07
3371PeterWoodI reported the problem for OS X - #914 - as far as I know its the same code on Linux.17-Dec-09 15:01
3370Pekruh, that should be ... reported :-)17-Dec-09 14:56
3369PeterWoodThe Linux version of R3 of call has the /wait option by default :-(17-Dec-09 14:36
3368PekrKaj - I want to know, if 'call command is part of the core, or the host. Because its current implementation sucks big time and I want /wait and /output refinements back :-)17-Dec-09 13:51
3367LuisI am interested in Rebol on ARM Android platforms.17-Dec-09 13:46
3366KajI'm testing the Linux host kit. Anything you want to know?17-Dec-09 0:18
3365Maximyou must ask carl, on R3 devchat16-Dec-09 19:09
3364LuisWhere Can I Download the linux host kit?16-Dec-09 15:15
3363HenrikNo, I did not.16-Dec-09 12:41
3362GabrieleHenrik, did you try Moblin?16-Dec-09 10:15
3361Claudesomeone test the new linux host kit of carl ?15-Dec-09 19:38
3360HenrikActually i thought it was a clone of the iPhone, but it turned out to be a thin shell above Ubuntu with a less usable browser and Gnome windows constantly popping up in a jarring way above the UI. I hate these papermaché solutions that only superficially tries to do something for usability.15-Dec-09 18:22
3359Maximthe wheel of technology... round and round it goes ;-)15-Dec-09 18:16
3358Maximdon't you love how everyone is suddenly copying the iphone?

and that it basically uses the paradigm of windows 1.0 , just with prettier graphics. :-D

15-Dec-09 18:16
3357Henrikwell, that was it. now it's uninstalled, which was the best part.15-Dec-09 16:53
3356HenrikInstalling Jolicloud on a netbook, that I borrowed. We'll see how well it works...15-Dec-09 16:41
3355HenrikChrome for Linux beta has been released.8-Dec-09 18:39
3354Robert 7:45
3353KajInteresting, where is that?7-Dec-09 20:08
3352RobertOk. I found a how-to for changing the distro on a live system via SSH. I think I will give it a try over the "clam x-mas days". Than I have enough time to fix it if I screw things up.7-Dec-09 16:39
3351AlanRobert: I use Ultimate Edition 2.3, it can boot to KDE or Gnome. If I can set it up and run and compile on it, any body can :)5-Dec-09 0:16
3350KajIf you can get away with introducing binaries from other systems... They can easily become incompatible. One thing that may help is to choose an older distro to compile on3-Dec-09 21:15
3349RobertI would like to switch to debian but don't know how I can do this on a running system...3-Dec-09 8:34
3348RobertOn the server I use EisXen. Sof far OK, but the update/upgrade route is bad.3-Dec-09 8:01
3347RobertCorrect, I just need a simple (not much to configure) system so that I can compile some code, that will than be transfered to my server system. I avoid compiling on my server.3-Dec-09 8:01
3346KajI don't think Robert would like Arch for a desktop (too much configuration), but as a server, maybe2-Dec-09 21:45
3345TomBonrobert, as a rolling release system ARCH could be a solution as well. it is not DEBIAN based (closer concept to BSD and GENTOO) but it is very fast, stable and alway fresh. the configuration e.g. is central and very logic. I am using it with a small footprint XFCE for desktop-virtualisation, just running...and running...2-Dec-09 21:05
3344KajIf by simple you mean user oriented, then yes2-Dec-09 19:26
3343RobertHmm... ok. What I need is a debian based simple distro. So, it sounds like MINT is a good choice.2-Dec-09 11:59
3342HenrikFor me, Ubuntu feels worse than Win98 in QA, so yes, that's why I question the QA abilities of the Ubuntu team. It looks to me that they only test the first 30 seconds of desktop usage.2-Dec-09 10:42
3341Gabrieleanyway, don't listen to me, just download the live cd, look at it, and trash it if you don't like it.2-Dec-09 10:41
3340Gabrielewell, in the level that you can get on Linux of course.2-Dec-09 10:40
3339HenrikUbuntu and QA in the same sentence? :-)2-Dec-09 10:39
3338Gabriele(and a better non-brown theme)2-Dec-09 10:38
3337Gabrieleotherwise, it's Ubuntu with more QA :)2-Dec-09 10:37
3336Gabrielethey have a number of GUIs but i've never used them. (like for sharing files with other people etc.)2-Dec-09 10:37
3335HenrikAny other killer features?2-Dec-09 10:35
3334BrianHMint includes the 32bit libs - one of the many reasons it is a great Linux distro :)2-Dec-09 10:32
3333Gabrieleif you have more than 2 GB of RAM, there are just too many advantages to using the 64 bit version.2-Dec-09 10:31
3332Gabrielei have the 64bit version of Mint. never had any problems with 32 bit apps, and the system is 20% faster than the 32 bit version (I actually tested this), and able to use all my RAM and not just part of it.2-Dec-09 10:30
3331KajAs well? Does that include 64 bits? Then you can't do that without a 64 bits installation1-Dec-09 22:43
3330RobertI need to compile stuff for 32bit as well.1-Dec-09 17:49
3329RobertDoes it make sense to use Ubuntu 64bit or is 32bit better?1-Dec-09 17:49
3328HenrikI guess I can read a bit about it.1-Dec-09 11:02
3327Gabrielewell, i went to distrowatch, tried a few of them, and mint seemed the best for me. i'd love to use gobo instead, but when i tried it everything self-destroyed on the first update.1-Dec-09 10:24
3326KajIs any computer system? Depends on the 7-year old. But Mint is the least worst30-Nov-09 16:08
3325Henrikis it 7-year-old friendly? :-)30-Nov-09 10:50
3324GabrieleI'm using Mint.30-Nov-09 10:49
3323HenrikLooking at moblin now for a netbook for a 7-year old (school requirement). Anyone tried that?30-Nov-09 10:42
3322Roberti think I will give Ubunto a try. IIRC it's debian based.30-Nov-09 10:38
3321AshleyGentoo then ;)30-Nov-09 10:11
3320KajYup, no better way to maximise complexity than to let every user build their own operating system29-Nov-09 18:31
3319RobertNo modding or pimping required.29-Nov-09 17:44
3318RobertI really like the zillions distros to choose from... makes my system unique around the world. :-)29-Nov-09 17:44
3317KajAt the danger of sounding repetitive, Syllable is one of the few systems you could reasonably try on such a low-memory machine - especially for an Amiga enthusiast29-Nov-09 16:58
3316KajIts development has almost stopped, though29-Nov-09 16:56
3315Kaj 16:56
3314KajHere's a Linux with older apps especially for old machines:29-Nov-09 16:56
3313KajSlitaz has modern applications such as the new Firefox, but running those will be out of the question29-Nov-09 16:54
3312Kaj 16:53
3311KajHe'll need one of the loram-cdrom versions to work on that little memory:29-Nov-09 16:53
3310Kaj 16:51
3309KajHere's a very good one:29-Nov-09 16:51
3308KajEven if it has more, to have a workable installation you need an extremely lean distro29-Nov-09 16:49
3307KajAllen, does that Thinkpad still have the default 32 MB memeory? Then there are very few Linuxes you could use29-Nov-09 16:47
3306KajThat's right on the mark29-Nov-09 16:46
3305HenrikRobert, IMHO, neither desktop is any good. KDE is well engineered underneath but the end user design is clueless. Here Gnome is better, but suffers from poor code quality, and have basically been spending close to 10 years rectifying that.29-Nov-09 16:11
3304RobertWow... 420MB download for stripped down Gnome...29-Nov-09 16:08
3303HenrikUbuntu 9.10 is quite good. I've only had to visit the terminal a couple of times to get SMB filesharing working since I first booted it 5 minutes ago and only one cryptic error message appeared.29-Nov-09 15:49
3302BrianHOh, and XFCE is another standard that has been gaining some traction.29-Nov-09 13:56
3301BrianHBoth are the standards, depending on who you ask. That's the great thing about standards - there are so many of them.29-Nov-09 13:54
3300RobertSeems like Gnome is the standard...29-Nov-09 13:53
3299RobertI'm mostly using Debian, what's the better GUI: KDE or Gnome?29-Nov-09 13:46
3298RobertKaj, it's C code.29-Nov-09 10:10
3297AlanMy old Amiga club president wants to try linux on an old IBM Thinkpad i1400 any suggestions ? Thanks !29-Nov-09 8:29
3296KajIf it's C++ code you must use g++. The gcc command has been illegal for that for several years28-Nov-09 23:57
3295RobertI use gcc. But you can add -### to see what gcc routes to the linker. And there you see all the implicit libs. But I fixed the problem by using gcc as the linker command.28-Nov-09 22:16
3294KajTo include non-standard libraries, you can use the $LDFLAGS environment variable28-Nov-09 15:31
3293KajIs that on C++ code? It makes a difference whether you use gcc or g++ to compile28-Nov-09 15:30
3292RobertIf I use GCC to build the extecutable there is a bunch of libs implicitly included. Doesn't seem to be if LD is used.28-Nov-09 11:48
3291RobertWhen using LD directly, how can I specify that the default libs are inlcuded without having to list them all?28-Nov-09 11:47
3290TomBonthx for the info kaj and gabriele. looks like a non journaling FS (ext2) and a noatime mounting will speed things up. will post some experiences after a while using this new stuff.12-Nov-09 12:28
3289Gabrieleext4 would be better than ext3 because of extents. for ssd's the best would be btrfs but that's probably not mature enough for you to use.11-Nov-09 10:15
3288KajDurability would probably be one of the new filesystems especially for SSD, such as LogFS. XFS has traditionally been best for very large files10-Nov-09 17:58
3287TomBonjust recieved my new samsung SSD's today. Any experience here in what kind of filesystem (linux) is optimal, blocksize etc? found some technical info's in the web (some choose ext3 others reiser) but I would prefer some infos from real life users. The intention is to use the SSD for highspeed desktop virtualisation (very big single files). any tipp for speed and durability?10-Nov-09 15:11
3286Claudenow oups28-Oct-09 17:49
3285Claudeit is ok know28-Oct-09 17:49
3284Claudethanks a lot28-Oct-09 17:49
3283Maximlook in the debugging group, this was just discussed about a few hours ago! next to last post tells you where to get the libstdc++5 package....28-Oct-09 17:47
3282Claudewhat i can do thank in advance28-Oct-09 17:45
3281Claudeperhaps i must do a link with libstdc++628-Oct-09 17:44
3280Claudehi rebol R2 do not working under ubuntu 9.10 !!!!! probleme with lib libstdc++528-Oct-09 17:43
3279BudzinskiCIt'll be at least a lot easier to write C extension instead of using an assembly like language ^^ I've used inline C and C++ in the past when writing Ruby code. I don't know much about C/C++ because I always try not to use them, but I read that nowadays the gcc compiler has gotten that good that sometimes the code it produces is as fast as hand written assembler would be.27-Oct-09 15:06
3278HenrikFor REBOL, supporting all platforms, theoretically if you have one person who knows enough about all modern OSes to maintain ports of R3, that should be enough for good support. Most of the compatibility problems are specific and known.27-Oct-09 15:03
3277HenrikI've read the explanation multiple times, but BrianH knows it better than me. It has something to do with how functions are implemented in R3, which would make rebcode work slower in R3. Therefore it's better to spend time perfecting extensions, so you can write time critical code in C and use that instead. Rebcode is not for beginners anyway (but it did bring up that oldschool feeling for a while :-)).27-Oct-09 14:56
3276BudzinskiCHenrik, I read about rebcode. Any idea why it's not going to be in R3? Sounded like a pretty cool feature. Although I would probably never use it, haven't done anything with assembler yet and I don't think I ever will (which usually means that something will happen that will force me to learn it tomorrow).27-Oct-09 14:52
3275BudzinskiCGabriele, that Java is open source should help a bit too ^^ But from what I read maybe not as much as it could. Seems like Sun needs to be forced to accept patches and it can take months until they give in. May have been just a few rare cases though, people who are angry about something are often more vocal than people who are satisfied.27-Oct-09 14:52
3274GabrieleBudzinski: REBOL's shortcomings wrt to "multiplatformness" are mainly due to Carl not having the time/resources to really keep all platforms up to date. Design wise, I think that we don't have the problems Java had/has; they do, though, have enough manpower to fix all of them, no matter how awful things end up being. ;)27-Oct-09 11:10
3273HenrikI guess a demonstration of its stretch is rebcode, which I had no idea was possible. It won't be in R3, but the fact that it's even possible to do in a scripting language and was implemented in as short time as it was is a great demonstration of how generic REBOL is.26-Oct-09 18:37
3272KajREBOL can cover an amazing stretch of that ground, but it often falls down on details, such as the one you just found. It's very frustrating, so we have pinned our hopes on R3 which is going to fix most of them26-Oct-09 17:51
3271BudzinskiCFrom my experience, no language is ideal for a person, but for a specific task instead. I try to use the best tool for the job when I can (same goes for operating systems, I use Windows, Mac OS X and Linux). At the moment all my projects are C++, Java, Clojure, Ruby, Objective-C, C#, Python and Vala (compiles to C). And sometimes I use even two or three languages in combination. I can't say if that's the best solution but for me it works good so far ^^26-Oct-09 13:59
3270PekrWe are waiting for R3, but R3 takes kind of long to complete. We learned a lot with VID2 and VID3/View3 should address our problems of the past. We don't try to pretend, that REBOL is ideal solution for you ....26-Oct-09 13:46
3269PekrRebol crosplatform GUI support kind of sucks :-)26-Oct-09 13:45
3268BudzinskiCI never had any trouble with Java + Swing working everywhere, but I only recently started using Java for real (about a year ago I think) so maybe it's just gotten a lot better now and was awful in the past ^^ But I guess it also depends a lot on what you are trying to do. Programming shouldn't be generalized. There are so many vastly different categories of programming (database, web, server, games, system, scripting, image/video processing, automation, A.I., embedded, etc.) that your mileage may vary depending on your area of interest. And don't get me wrong, I don't want to bash REBOL in any way. Apart from being completely new to the language which means that I can't really say if it's bad or good yet, I wouldn't be here if I didn't think it was useful and had potential :) Thankfully I already had some basic experience with Scheme, Clojure (a lisp) and Haskell so that REBOL's syntax didn't come as a shock for me :)26-Oct-09 13:43
3267PekrIs the situation really so bad? Well then - there is no other chance than to do it on per distro basis then, and isolate what is common for more platforms, and then do special configs ...26-Oct-09 12:54
3266AshleyWe will for Windows and OSX ... but the problem for *nix land is the continuing lack of a standard distro to target for. You can't make *any* assumptions about what you're running on. I think the RT approach of, "this is the Linux distro we are targeting, uses others at your own risk" is about the only practical option.26-Oct-09 12:38
3265PekrI hope we get those things fixed and resolved for View/VID 3 ....26-Oct-09 12:33
3264AshleyMore a problem with VID (the dialect) than REBOL/View per se. I think REBOL lives up to the "write once, run everywhere" moniker better than Java ("write once, test everywhere") ... *as long as* you don't rely on OS-specific calls/fonts/paths, etc.26-Oct-09 12:30
3263BudzinskiCYeah on Mac OS X there are a few problems too. The bottom of a scrollbar isn't shown for example (I guess the resize graphic in the lower right corner covers it). And the console is unusable when the view freezes. Whatever I type ends up as garbage and gets mixed up with the command history so the only option at that point is to restart REBOL. REBOL seems to work only good on Windows at this point. But cross platform is always a hard thing to achieve, I haven't found any solution other than Java & Swing that "just works". Well, maybe Adobe AiR but only on Windows and Mac OS X, on Linux you get into trouble as soon as you use something other than Ubuntu :)26-Oct-09 12:24
3262GabrieleBudzinski: my guess is that for some reason, either a size-text fails, or some othe code fails, leading to a 0x0 or negative pair somewhere, or something else weird. REBOL's codebase is just too old, so it's always a bit at odds with Linux. :)26-Oct-09 11:19
3261HenrikBudzinskiC, as far as I know there's no real tutorial. Let's continue this in the Debugging group.26-Oct-09 7:50
3260KajI'm not aware of a specific debugging tutorial. It takes experience, yes. It's not ideal, either, and in REBOL 3 the debugging abilities are greatly improved26-Oct-09 4:03
3259KajAh, I understand26-Oct-09 4:01
3258BudzinskiCYeah I started looking at the code. It's a bit hard to debug for me though. The error doesn't give any line number, it just says "near show main". I searched for "show main" and found three occurances in the source. I'm completely new to REBOL so going through everything in the code would take me quite some time without being able to narrow it down first because everything looks alien to me and I have to look it up to see if something in the script looks wrong. Is there some good tutorial available on debugging REBOL code? Or is there some trick to find out the last line that was executed? I do have access to the terminal at that point, the view is frozen but the terminal still accepts commands.26-Oct-09 1:12
3257KajYou could have a look in the script to see what it's doing at that point26-Oct-09 0:10
3256BudzinskiCI'll try to ask in the Arch Linux forum about this tomorrow. There probably won't be anyone using REBOL there but maybe a few people are willing to try this out. I'm far from being a Linux guru, if someone with more experience would try the Word Browser on his Arch Linux system, the possibility of a configuration error on my part could be ruled out.25-Oct-09 20:33
3255BudzinskiCGabriele, wouldn't an error in the script mean that the Word Browser shouldn't work at all? It does work fine on Windows and Mac OS X and from what ManuM said, it works on Kubuntu Linux too. But thanks for your input on this :) Maybe REBOL is incompatible with a newer version of a package. Arch Linux is a rolling release distro (daily updates compared to Ubuntu where you get updates every 6 months in form of a new distribution release). If it's that, then this problem will pop up for other Linux users in a few months too, when their distributions update to use newer packages.25-Oct-09 20:22
3254GabrieleBudzinski: usually it's the bitmap fonts, but you had those installed already, so maybe it's not a font problem. "Bad face in screen pane" could also be the script trying to open a window with negative or zero size, or things like that. Maybe a negative offset could cause that error as well.25-Oct-09 9:01
3253JankoAnyone has any recommandations how to setup linux for top security .. I have closed all ports except http https while ssh is limited to my static IP address. I have intergrity detection (tripwire that runs once per day and reports me all the changed files). Doc recommended Snort .. does using snort make sense in such setup where only those 2 / 3 ports are open? I suspect snort detects attacks at realtime. I want some realtime thing also because once per day for detecting attacks is basically much much too late.24-Oct-09 23:30
3252BudzinskiCNo change. I tried to install a few more font packages but those didn't help either. But thanks for your help, it was worth a try :)24-Oct-09 19:36
3251KajThose font packages all have different names on different Linux distros - one facet of the disaster24-Oct-09 18:07
3250KajI remember trying the Biggelow Holmes fonts on Zenwalk, so you could try font-bh-ttf, but I don't remember if those were the ones to fix it24-Oct-09 18:06
3249KajI don't see much else you could try. Maybe the ttf-ms-fonts, because it has popular font names, but that would be a new case of the problem24-Oct-09 18:00
3248KajYou could try xorg-fonts-alias, in case a font is installed but not found because the name doesn't match24-Oct-09 17:59
3247KajYeah, View has no rich text, and AltME screws up the hotlink overlays24-Oct-09 17:55
3246BudzinskiCHmm AltMe cut off the message, but the link still works, just click on it, don't copy and paste (it's displayed incorrectly). Does any package there sounds like it could be the one I need? And thanks for trying to help.24-Oct-09 16:27
3245BudzinskiCKaj, here are all the available packages with "font" in the name: Anything that sounds like it could be the right one? And thanks for trying to help.24-Oct-09 16:24
3244KajNormally it's a problem right at startup of View and it's fixed by installing the X11 fixed size bitmap fonts, but you seem to have those already. Are there any other bitmap fonts packages that you can install?24-Oct-09 4:40
3243BudzinskiCManuM, thanks for the tip. I tried it but it's still the same.22-Oct-09 22:28
3242ManuMBudzinski: No problem here with word-browser when I select a category and then a word. Works fine on Kubuntu 9.04 and Rebol/View Try to reload again the script with right button and then reload over the Word Browser Icon22-Oct-09 22:05
3241SteeveThis: 18:39
3240Claudebrowse !!! ?22-Oct-09 18:29
3239Steeveok, got it22-Oct-09 15:51
3238Steeve*Browser22-Oct-09 15:43
3237SteeveWhat do you call the "Word brother" ???22-Oct-09 15:42
3236BudzinskiCYeah hopefully I can get this fixed somehow. I don't use the laptop that often and it would be nice to have the Word Browser for reference here on my desktop while learning REBOL, but the website is okay too. Thanks for your help though, much appreciated.22-Oct-09 13:47
3235AshleyLet's see if anyone else on Linux has the same issue, otherwise a feedback is in order. Good find.22-Oct-09 13:45
3234BudzinskiCYeah works on OS X for me too, got that on my laptop. RebGUI seems to work fine, went through a few of the tabs, nothing crashed.22-Oct-09 13:40
3233AshleyProbably not a font issue then. Works fine here on OSX so sounds like a Linux specific error. Does RebGUI work? (REBOL/Demos group)22-Oct-09 13:39
3232BudzinskiCTried italic too, just to make sure.22-Oct-09 13:34
3231BudzinskiCNo problems there either.22-Oct-09 13:33
3230AshleyTry same, but with bold and underline (e.g.view layout [text "test" font-fixed bold underline])22-Oct-09 13:32
3229BudzinskiCThanks, I tried it. No problems with any of those three, everything was displayed correctly and no errors in the console.22-Oct-09 13:30

help font- view layout [text "test" font-fixed] view layout [text "test" font-sans-serif] view layout [text "test" font-serif]

22-Oct-09 13:28
3227BudzinskiCThanks for trying to help :) With font problem, do you mean something like a missing font? I got these installed: ttf-ms-fonts, ttf-dejavu, ttf-bitstream-vera, xorg-fonts-100dpi, xorg-fonts-75dpi, and xorg-fonts-misc. Any idea what kind of font would be missing for the Word Browser?22-Oct-09 13:06
3226Henriksounds like a font problem22-Oct-09 12:22
3225BudzinskiCHi, any idea how to get the Word Browser from Rebol -> Tools to work on Linux? I get an error after I click a category and then a word: ** User Error: Bad face in screen pane! ** Near: show main This is using Rebol/View on Arch Linux.22-Oct-09 11:59
3224ManuMThank you Brian. Now seems tha "bugs" and "docs" are working with my own definition. I'm not sure when I saw they failling, may be an old version, I don't know. I have the same issue wiht Opera hangs.17-Oct-09 8:02
3223btiffinManuM; I have browse: func [url] [call rejoin ["opera -backgroundtab " url] and that seems to work great with bugs and docs. Debian with A87 ... Although this version hangs the console until Opera exit if Opera isn't already running ...17-Oct-09 3:49
3222Claudethanks for your redefine solution. perhaps carl could do something about this problem16-Oct-09 16:26
3221ManuMClaude, I have a similar solution, I redefine browse in user.r browse: funct [ url ] [ call reform [ "x-www-browser" url ]] So you can do browse http;// But docs, and bugs don´t work ( you can redefine them too If you want ), but I think you don't like this solution.15-Oct-09 18:44
3220Claudeup - i would like an another solution for BROWSE in linux - please ;-)15-Oct-09 17:17
3219Claudebut i don't like it !!!!!15-Oct-09 12:13
3218Claudea work around is to use CALL like this "call [firefox ""]15-Oct-09 12:12
3217Claudehi, do you have a solution for the BROWSE problem on linux ?15-Oct-09 12:10
3216OldesCan I create and use own icon for binary application on linux so it will be included when I distribute such an app as an archive?9-Oct-09 19:06
3215JaneksSeems like /usr/bin9-Oct-09 9:57
3214JaneksWhat would be the right place (diretory) to put rebol executable under linux debian?9-Oct-09 9:54
3213MikeLYes everyone is growly and feeling unappreciated for their work ... the beta can't be too far off.6-Oct-09 0:57
3212Reichart"I am not offended, I'm just sad that everytime I say something simple it gets interpreted as something big and complex that would hurt people..."

... :)

5-Oct-09 15:17
3211BrianHOuch, that would be bad :(4-Oct-09 22:46
3210GabrieleI am not offended, I'm just sad that everytime I say something simple it gets interpreted as something big and complex that would hurt people...4-Oct-09 11:34
3209PekrMaybe I should write Winbox in View :-)3-Oct-09 15:38
3208Pekrbtw: MT offers web interface, but you can't set everything with it ...3-Oct-09 15:38
3207PekrGabriele - let's make a peace in the above case. I am sorry if I offended you :-)3-Oct-09 15:38
3206Gabrielethat said, their hardware looks nice and cheap.3-Oct-09 13:24
3205Gabrieleoh, my third criticism to MT, 3) there is no reason why they are offering a windows-only gui instead of a web-based one like everyone else in the world.3-Oct-09 13:22
3204GabrieleAlso, I don't see what's so magical with Cisco that if people are replacing it then it must mean something...3-Oct-09 13:21
3203GabrieleThe criticism I made to RouterOS was very targeted and very simple, and you of course completely ignored it. I said two things: 1) there is absolutely no reason they had to add the stupid shell they have when you connect via SSH 2) there is no reason why what they do could not have been implemented on top of debian, or any other distribution, thus allowing people who know what they are doing to provide extra services that are beyond what's in their default configuration. That is just a stupid choice. So, most people don't care or need, and for them MT may be a good choice. That does not make them a good alternative to a linux box, neither a good alternative to Janko's problem above, and from what you say they may be even making things worse.3-Oct-09 13:20
3202GabrieleAlso, PLEASE, I beg you, do *read* what I write. I never said my problems are due to mikotik. I said my problems are due to my ISP not knowing what they are doing. You said that mikrotik allows "normal" people to set up a WISP. Right, they do, and the result is that they waste MY time *because* they know nothing about this job. This was *your* claim, and it seems to be consistent with what I am seeing.3-Oct-09 13:17
3201GabrielePetr, it's NOT my connection to this world that does not world. NOTHING works. STOP talking about things you have no idea about. This has been pure crap since JUNE.3-Oct-09 13:14
3200PekrSo in the end - use what you are happy with. But don't try to put down publicly system, you have no deeper experience with, please, as apparently all WISP providers are happy with it (and not only them, some ppl go so far to replace Ciscos), and it might serve well to some other ppl, looking for simple yet sufficient solution for their usage case. By reading your comments, noone would probably ever considered Mikrotik, and that is all it is about - let's not create myths, where there are apparently no myths involved, and the system might work satisfactory to many ppl ...2-Oct-09 10:09
3199PekrThe complexity vs simplicity factor can be very easily checked. My brother, who would not be absolutly able to set-up linux router, has set-up 50 MT based router nodes. We are serving 600+ ppl, with problems here or there. We have 3rd iteration of our network, having our MT backbone rock-solid. Some P2P connections are going to be replaced with 10GHz ones, becaue we know where's 5GHz limit, and we try to use the right tools for particular needs.

But once again - I visited at least 5, maybe more courses, related to radios, frequencies, their correct usage, cables, antennas, with profi (lended from T-mobile) equipment, where we checked on the antennas and cables parameters, and I can tell you, that with wrong Antenna, pigtail, cable, with wrong installation, you can ruin your connection quality even down to 40%. No SW, being it MT, or Debian, or StarOS, can fix it.

2-Oct-09 10:05
3198PekrIt has NOTHING to do with MT and your claims are simply false. If you are so brave, then go, and replace your bad MT with another Debian Box. I wonder, if it would make you more happy. MT is not bug-free, I never claimed anything like that. My MT suggestion was relatad exactly to the SIMPLICITY factor. You call it complex? Man - it is like you never used REBOL, right? MT brings simplicity to the wifi providing, that some other solutions are not even funny to suggest.

MT Linux abstraction is like a VID dialect upon Linux - yes, it can't do everything. But I can't come-up with anything it does not do for me for 99% of my usage cases. Yes, I noticed your OpenVPN problem, not supporting UDP, and yes, it sucks, but it does not mean that MT does not serve its purpose.

2-Oct-09 9:57
3197PekrThere is so much to the wi-fi layer to know about in praxe, that it is not even funny. There can be plenty of reasons, why your connection is crappy. First of them might be RT's provider itself. That can be checked easy enough - if your connection is not broken only for Altme, then most probably it is not RT's provider, but your connection.

From there, I would check your provider. Wi-fi is NOT cable, it never will be, and the technology never claimed to be 100% problem-free. 99% of problems are NOT related to MT and its SW, believe me. The clear sight to your provider antenna, the weather, the antenna quality, pigtail quality, pigtail/calbe isolation (if water is there, the signal might drop SIGNIFICANTLY), general wi-fi signal pollution in wifi crowded area, etc. etc.

2-Oct-09 9:53
3196PekrI think I am no willing to spend my time talking some wifi related issues with someone, who apparently does not know, what he is talking about ... talking about at all.2-Oct-09 9:49
3195PekrGabriele - after reading your messages, I have to say one thing - I always have great respect for your and for your knowledge, especially in regards to REBOL. But your last remarks are so completly off, that I really wish you don't mean it for real.2-Oct-09 9:48
3194Gabrielego read Carl's blog again about people not having a clue about the business they run. go read Chuck Moore's interview that says the same thing (complexity means that we are doomed). I can't undertand why only so few people on this planet get it - how can everyone else think that more complex is better...2-Oct-09 9:35
3193Gabrielei will never understand why you guys always want to make things more COMPLEX instead of making them SIMPLER. place RESTRICTIONS instead of enabling FREEDOM. i just don't get it. it's extremely frustrating for me.2-Oct-09 9:34
3192GabrieleMy router is a debian lenny box. I'm so much happier now that the mikrotik router in the antenna is just acting as a bridge and I don't even know it's there. less crap to learn and worry about...2-Oct-09 9:33
3191Gabrielethe issue is not whether it's free or not. the issue is that they are REMOVING features for no reason at all. Why not just add their own windows UI (that of course it's only for windows! they could not do like anyone else and make a web interface that works everywhere...) on top of a custom linux distribution that ALSO gives you the ability to do whatever you want with it IF you know how?2-Oct-09 9:32
3190GabrieleI lost the messages i was typing to you yesterday, and you know why? My internet connection does not work. Guess what is my ISP? One of those WISP that uses mikrotik for everything. Yes, I guess that means something. It means that incompetent people just damage other people's work.2-Oct-09 9:30
3189PekrI can give anyone demo access to my central router, to look around. My opinion simply is, that some things don't need to be entirely free, in order to be considered. And something like 30-40 USD is cool price ...1-Oct-09 9:46
3188PekrAs for OpenVPN - I don't know - it is kind of "recent" addition, as community screamed for it. There is l2tp, pptp, ppoe and I use simple pptp ....1-Oct-09 9:45
3187PekrI find using plain linux for FW/GW purposes only as extremly bad idea nowadays. Of course, if your server does provide you with services as webhosting, then Linux is preferred.1-Oct-09 9:41
3186PekrIt might have nothing to do with Janko's problem. But - I saw you suggesting him ShoreWall, and in that regard I did mention Mikrotik, because I have experience with it, and simply put - nearly all WISP are using it, and that means something. Some ppl do replace Cisco's with it. The system is no-brainer - just insert CF with MT, boot, and there you go. If some node dies, you can replace it in 10 minutes, no virtualisation or advanced technique used, just its clever design. Besides that - MT is still Linux underneath ...1-Oct-09 9:40
3185Gabrielecan you explain me why mikrotik supports openvpn but *only* on tcp and not udp? that makes no sense at all.1-Oct-09 9:17
3184Gabrieleso, what the hell has that to do with Janko's problem (a firewall for his server)?1-Oct-09 9:17
3183PekrSimply put - our example - small to middle network, 600+ wi-fi users, 50+ MT nodes, which even lamers like me and my brother can properly build. Would we be possible to make it using bare-bonesLinux? Absolutly not. Your reaction is imo typical example of why Linux fails in the long run. PPl want easy solution, not guru stuff.1-Oct-09 9:12
3182PekrGabriele - you should know what you are talking about, no? I use MT for 3 years, and the docs are there, there is a forum, there is a wiki. It allows so much complicated stuff like traffic bonding, easy scheduling/shaping, mangling, scripting, virtual interfaces, dynamic lists, etc. that it is not even funny to compare it to bare-bones Linux ....1-Oct-09 9:10
3181Gabrieleit's much harder to figure out than iptables, you can find MILLIONS of hits on google about iptables1-Oct-09 9:08
3180Gabrielehow is mikrotik easier than the above, give that they don't even have complete documentation on their side?1-Oct-09 9:07
3179PekrGabriele - because Linux sucks. Because if it would be easy, Janko would not post his questions here. I user REBOL, because it provides me with simplicity to what I need to do. I use Mikrotik, because it is absolutly best low-cost FW/shaper/whatever, used by 90% small WISP?1-Oct-09 8:43
3178GabrielePetr, I'm not sure why someone would want a non-standard, hard to use shell over Linux, but, ok... :P1-Oct-09 8:38
3177PekrShoreWall, MonoWall ... and the winner is - Mikrotik :-)30-Sep-09 9:32
3176Jankomodprobe gives me the following error: FATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.24-2-pve/modules.dep: No such file or directory

I looked and it seems that VPS container can't access kernel modules .. I am still waiting for administrator because there was some linux conf two days now.. he should fix it today ...

I will check out shorewall .. I need quite simple confihuration , no forwarding, just close everything and lock ssh to some static IP-s

30-Sep-09 9:28
3175Gabriele(it takes some time to configure, but iptables takes some time to configure as well)30-Sep-09 8:26
3174Gabriele 8:26
3173Gabrieleanyway... i'd recommend using something like Shorewall instead of coding your iptables manually. (i used to code iptables manually many years ago...)30-Sep-09 8:25
3172Gabrieleyou should be able to load the module yourself with modprobe etc. (and it's strange iptables doesn't load it automatically, i thought it did)30-Sep-09 8:24
3171JankoIt took me half of day of looking but I think I am close to it now.. when I run the script I get

"iptables: No chain/target/match by that name"

and it's realted to this line:

iptables -A INPUT -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT

after much digging it currently it looks that the vps is missing "state" kernel module which is given there by -m "meaning match" .. I just wrote the vps host computer admin and I hope he will be able to enable it

28-Sep-09 17:39
3170JankoThanks for help Graham and Doc .. I wanted to reply multiple times but altme didn't want to accept my text and it was disconnecting me28-Sep-09 17:35

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