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2281Gabrieleyes, color or something like that is what i was thinking. maybe some kind of "mode". i need to look at some ansi esc sequence docs, i'll eventually do that if noone beats me to it.Today 9:57
2280Oldes1B1B5B smells like a color:)Thu 21:39
2279Oldesbut it smells. as C5A1 is a regular czech "š"Thu 21:34
2278Oldesit's not utf-8, this char is #{C49B} in itThu 21:32
2277Gabriele(i guess we should look up somewhere what kind of sequence is that...)Thu 17:48
2276Gabrieledoes he get the same even when using the hexdump command? could it be that that character "enables" something? the terminal will process the escape sequence but rebol will not.Thu 17:48
2275GabrieleC5A1 smells like UTF-8 to me, but what's before that seems an escape sequence of some kind.Thu 17:47
2274PekrGabriele - something odd is happening on my friend's system. He claims, that characters are identical, but once he presses Czech "ì" #{EC), it returns 1B1B5BC5A1. The strange thing is, then when he presses that char I mentioned, then it influences return values even for another chars, e.g. 1B1B5BC4 .... I wonder what is happening here ....Thu 14:13
2273shadwolfthat should be some keymaping weird lack of configurationSat 4:20
2272shadwolfok perfect thank you very much anton i trasmited the reply in the french forumSat 4:18
2271Antonview layout [text-list data ["hello" "bonjour"]]Sat 4:16
2270AntonBut equally, 1.3.2.4.2 works as well.Sat 4:16
2269AntonYes, 2.7.6.4.2Sat 4:15
2268shadwolfwich rebol version do you use the 2.7.6 ?Sat 4:14
2267AntonAsk that person to provide a small code example showing the bug, and what platform / Rebol version they are using.Sat 4:14
2266AntonEach item is added or removed from the selection as I ctrl+click on it..Sat 4:13
2265shadwolfokay thank you very much anton ^^Sat 4:13
2264AntonAh wait. No, I can ctrl-click text-list here on Kubuntu 7.10.Sat 4:12
2263AntonYes, text-list is very underpowered.Sat 4:10
2262shadwolfis it a known bug ?Sat 2:30
2261shadwolfsomeone on french forum reports that the ctrl key doesn't allow to select text in text-list like it does in the windows versionSat 2:30
2260Pekrthanks Gabriele!28-Aug 12:39
2259Gabrieleif you get different output from the two tests then something is definitely wrong. also, if you're not getting UTF-8 like the above, things may get more complicated.28-Aug 9:22
2258Gabriele(type the char you want to see the encoding for, REBOL will give you the binary encoding)28-Aug 9:21
2257Gabriele>> c: open/binary/no-wait console:// wait c copy c == #{C3A0} >> wait c copy c == #{C3B2}28-Aug 9:20
2256Gabriele(type the chars you want to see the encoding for, then enter, then CTRL-D)28-Aug 9:20
2255Gabrielegiesse@batou:~$ hexdump -C àòèúí 00000000 c3 a0 c3 b2 c3 a8 c3 ba c3 ad 0a |...........| 0000000b28-Aug 9:20
2254GabrielePetr, one test you could do is:28-Aug 9:20
2253AntonWelcome, Louis.28-Aug 7:09
2252LouisAnton, drive c: was the problem. Thank you very much!28-Aug 4:03
2251Pekrhmm, I just tried with my old fedora core1, and linux rebol console displays czech alphabet correctly, his debian one does not. So imo brian is right, it will be kind of improper system setting or so ...27-Aug 9:39
2250GabrielePetr: "not talking unicode here" - that's where you are wrong. If he's not using UTF-8, then he'll have a huge load of problems in general. if he's using utf-8... then all should be fine, as long as he does not try to display the text in View.27-Aug 9:35
2249btiffinWhat console is he running? Under Konsole the list of encodings is overwhelming. (From the Settings menu). If it's xterm, then ... I dunno, but regardless, if it is xterm or other, drop a note and we'll track down an appropriate place to tweak the default encoding used by his REBOL console (whatever terminal he uses) session.

It might be easier (some gui menu), but it could well look something like

XTerm*locale: true XTerm*font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--20-200-75-75-c-100-iso10646-1

in an X config file

From the root text console for REBOL/Core, we'd have to look into that as well; been there, kinda done that, too many details, forget all details, but keep foggy clue where to start looking ... :)

27-Aug 5:19
2248PekrI found following - http://www.compkarori.com/vanilla/display/AGG ... but strange thing is, that fonts are wrong even in console, not in view ...26-Aug 17:55
2247Pekrthe system is Debian kernel 2.6.18, rebview 2.7.6 ....26-Aug 17:07
2246PekrI need assistance for my friend who tries to use REBOL on Linux - he says, that REBOL can't handle Czech characters - in console, he sees various characters like heart pictogram etc. instead of Czech chars. I think that Linux version should not have any problem with Czech language. Is there any guide how to check what to set on linux in order to get proper national character display? (not talking unicode here)26-Aug 15:38
2245LouisI'll let you know what happens, but it will be a few hours. I'm taking my wife out to eat to celebrate our 41st wedding anniversary! She just let me know she is dressed and ready to go.26-Aug 11:03
2244LouisHi Anton! You have a good eye. I'll check that drive C:26-Aug 10:52
2243AntonAha. Have you mounted /c/ ? That was your Windows box C: drive It could possibly be now mounted at /media/C/ or something like that, otherwise it needs to be mounted manually.26-Aug 10:43
2242AntonHow are you launching your script ? Have you disabled security using -s ?26-Aug 10:29
2241LouisI've been using that script for 6 years without a problem, so I suspect that this present problem has something to do with Linux.26-Aug 9:47
2240Louis** Access Error: Cannot open /c/rebol/dayspring/txt2html.r ** Near: do %/c/rebol/dayspring/txt2html.r t2h %Order-PSH-Printed.txt do >>26-Aug 9:38
2239LouisActually, there are two more lines:26-Aug 9:38
2238LouisI ran chmod -R 775 on that directory, but it didn't help. Any ideas what is wrong?26-Aug 9:36
2237Louis** Access Error: Cannot open /c/rebol/dayspring/txt2html.r ** Near: do %/c/rebol/dayspring/txt2html.r26-Aug 9:35
2236LouisThe script that I used to build my website un XP is not working under Linux. I get:26-Aug 9:35
2235AntonJaneks, the necessity to type './' before a filename to launch a command in the current directory was added for security reasons. (You could be tricked into running a different command than expected.) I don't recommend changing your path to make it easier, you could be bitten one day.24-Aug 7:02
2234AntonYep, I just spent at least 4 weeks learning how to compile and install a video driver in Kubuntu. I had to do a distro upgrade because the graphics card I bought was too new for the OS. I became a little more proficient in the console over the last four weeks. :)18-Aug 11:42
2233RobertWow, I finished a configuration and setup journey the last couple of weeks. Linux is far from being straight-forward to configure... but which OS is at all.

Anyway, if someone wants to get some hints about xen, exim, dovecot, ssmtp, assp, lighttpd, iptables let me know. I'm now quite good in all this... steep learning curve.

11-Aug 15:28
2232btiffinCool. As Bill Marley (if there was a Bill Marley) might have sang; "No windows, no cry. Everything's gonna be all right ".

Yes, sleep timers should use next to zero CPU. And if you need a task to be running across boots and crashes, checkout monit. monit is a process monitor (there are others) that I like using as it alleviates figuring out the details of the run-levels and init scripts.

5-Aug 16:07
2231LouisAs for my script, I decided not to use cron. Once I learned how cron works, I realized it was not suitable for use with this script. I just put a timer in the script, and everything is working great. I was afraid that the timer would take a lot of cpu power, but it doesn't even take enough power to be noticable. This also eliminated the need to go to root.5-Aug 6:56
2230Louisbtiffin, thanks. I like Linux. I did a lot of experimenting when I first made the switch, and that helped speed up the learning process. There is so much to learn that I doubt that any one person could ever know it all, but I've already learned enough to be able to do more than I was able to do with windows after many years of use. My rant: I hate the Windows registry file!5-Aug 6:51
2229btiffinLouis; do yourself a favour. Read up on chmod, chown and chgrp. In particular chmod. These aren't the easiest of topics at first (mainly due to the crap involved with the 1970's octal numbers and some poor choice of names). But after the initial weirdness the concepts are really straight forward. Read, Write, Execute across User (the owner), Group, Others (not in group) and All (world).

There is an overlay of weirdness with directories and Execute (create a file in the dir) and a special mode bit etc. But again ... grunt through until your brain tells you that you get it. It's important, imho.

Flailing around with sudo and su (and root powers in general) is not the safest of ways to run Linux. Potentially lowers the security to the level of your average Windows box ... nearly none. :) It can seem like a pain sometimes, but it isn't, it's part and parcel of a secure os. BG has tainted the world to think it is inconvenient. Much like a lock maker giving everyone the same key. A stupid "convenience" that wouldn't fly when it came to your car or house or bank, but PC users have grown up with and expect for reasons I have never understood. (This last part is simple ranting - sorry about that)

4-Aug 23:40
2228LouisTyping sudo su and then my password solved the password problem.4-Aug 10:19
2227LouisThanks, Henrik, I'll try some of these suggestions. I'll let you know what happens. However, it may be awhile, as I've just been called to eat.4-Aug 8:58
2226HenrikI don't know bash well enough to tell you that :-) but then you will have to manage the script yourself, remember to run it again after reboot.4-Aug 8:55
2225Henrikyou should be able to make directories within the same user level, if the place where you are trying to make directories has the right permissions.4-Aug 8:53
2224LouisI suppose I could start the script with sudo from the command line, have timers in the script, and just leave the script running all the time. Would that use up a lot of cpu power?4-Aug 8:51
2223LouisI'm learning fast, but there is a lot to learn. More than one person will ever know, I think.4-Aug 8:47
2222LouisBut then, I quite new to Linux. I didn't know about su root, for example.4-Aug 8:46
2221LouisPretty sure. Otherwise I can't make directories.4-Aug 8:45
2220Henrikare you sure the task you want to do can't be done without resorting to root?4-Aug 8:43
2219LouisThanks anyway Henrik. I've been painting myself into a corner alot lately.4-Aug 8:42
2218Henrikno. I think it's beyond my expertise now. :-) I have only tried this in debian where there is a root user available. some distributions are root-less.4-Aug 8:41
2217LouisIs there a default password?4-Aug 8:40
2216HenrikI'm not sure you can. Sudo isn't quite the same user level as root, AFAIK.4-Aug 8:37
2215LouisI'll have to think about it for awhile, but I don't remember giving root a different password from my own. Can I us sudo to change the password for root?4-Aug 8:37
2214Henrikit must be the root password4-Aug 8:34
2213Louissu root is not accepting my password. Is that bad news or what?4-Aug 8:32
2212LouisOh, ok. I'll try that.4-Aug 8:29
2211Henriksu root and edit its crontab. you must be the user you want to edit the crontab for, AFAIK.4-Aug 8:28
2210LouisHow do I do that?4-Aug 8:27
2209HenrikI think you need to set that particular cron job for the root user. I'm not sure you can switch user level inside your current user to root inside a cron job.4-Aug 8:26
2208LouisYes, I know. I forgot about that and put sudo in the script. I can take sudo out easy enough, but then the script won't be able to make directories. How can the script run as root without having to ask me for a password?4-Aug 8:25
2207Henriksudo will ask, if you are using sudo. that's not the script itself doing that.4-Aug 7:52
2206LouisWhen I run the script from the command line, sudo asks for permissions. The script must ask me nothing so that it can run unattended.4-Aug 7:52
2205LouisI'll try that, but there are other problems showing up now, not related directly to cron.4-Aug 7:50
2204PeterWoodI don't think that you need the -script, have you tried

/usr/bin/rebview -s /home/lat/r/dar/backup.r ?

4-Aug 7:23
2203PeterWoodProbaby not if you as you are running Rebol and supplying the scriptname as an arg.4-Aug 7:19
2202LouisPeter, thanks. Is the shebang line absolutely necessary? Here is what I had in mind for the crontab line:

0 * * * * /usr/bin/rebview -s -script /home/lat/r/dar/backup.r

When I use a shebang line a permissions request dialog pops up even though I have secure set to allow.

4-Aug 6:20
2201PeterWoodThe two most obvious things are the shebang line in the script and file permissions.4-Aug 4:25
2200LouisI've read many docs but can't get cron to work. I'm editing the table with gcrontab. The cron prossess is running. There are no error messages, but my rebol script simply does not run. Any clues as to why?4-Aug 3:57
2199Alanget it here : http://home.comcast.net/~amiga/Ext2.exe22-Jul 19:01
2198Alanfor anybody who uses Windows and Linux on the same box, this program allows you to read/write to each other.You will need to have any other usb/external hds plugged in before installing22-Jul 19:00
2197RobertAny XEN or network configuration gurus here? I have setup a XEN system but have some problems with the network configuration.5-Jul 16:14
2196RobertI already googled but there isn't really a lot available...30-Jun 14:57
2195RobertHas anyone a link to a good GCC toolchain tutorial. Things like: How to make static-link-libs, etc.30-Jun 14:56
2194KajIf you really want to do it from the text mode console, you have to start X first. And then when you start an X app, it will open on console 7, the graphical one where X runs, so you have to switch consoles27-May 4:58
2193KajIf you work in a terminal emulator in an X window, you can just start graphical apps from the command line27-May 4:57
2192KajI don't use a GUI on Syllable Server because it doesn't have one yet :-)27-May 4:56
2191RobertI never used a GUI on Linux. The only thing I need is midnight commander.25-May 12:52
2190btiffinLouis; Woohoo. CLI wins in my book. Everytime. Well I take that back a little. Windowed CLI's are just that little bit better, in terms of eye strain and quickly getting from task A to task B. Konsole is the da bomb. Note, my mileage varies. I don't really do art, but I appreciate it when I see it.

Learn some bash, AWK, sed, tr and cut and there won't be a text file that can't be scrunched and munched into whatever form you desire. ;) Well, Icon too if you have reaallly complex needs. Umm, assuming REBOL doesn't already have a one-liner solution.

25-May 0:07
2189LouisI'm keeping KDE, but I find myself more and more using the the command console (or eshell from emacs).24-May 11:27
2188TomcI use have used Unix without a gui well forever, but unless gimp has an ascii rendering mode (netpbm does) it may not be what you want .24-May 4:39
2187BrianHMost of what I do could in theory be done from the command line (I don't edit images much), but the gain or loss in productivity varies.22-May 23:12
2186BrianHcoLinux-based distributiins manage just fine on Windows with just console and networking support - all of the GUI and sound stuff comes from servers running as native Windows apps and talking over the network connection.22-May 23:10
2185LouisThanks, Brian.22-May 23:08
2184LouisOk, I see what you mean. I guess it would be best to keep all options open. I've just be intriged by how much faster one can, for example, locate files use the command console---it is almost instant.22-May 23:07
2183BrianHI mean the general kind of problem an app is supposed to help with.22-May 23:02
2182BrianHIn this case, image editing.22-May 23:01
2181LouisWhat do you mean by "problem domain"?22-May 23:00
2180BrianHI would be slowed down - I can't type very quickly.22-May 23:00
2179BrianHYou would be wrong about the problem domain that is covered by your example app, Gimp. Other problem domains could be different though.22-May 22:59
2178LouisIf so, it seems to me that work would go a lot faster without the gui once the main Linux commands are learned. Am I right about this?22-May 22:58
2177BrianHUnless you are using gimp script, I would think you would at least need an X server somewhere.22-May 22:58
2176LouisGimp can be loaded from the command console. Could it be loaded if there were no gui such as KDE?22-May 22:56
2175LouisDo any of you guys use Linux without a gui? I note that22-May 22:54
2174GrahamHope they fix that decimal bug.3-May 20:10
2173btiffinI just looked. Yesterday they announced a freeze for Wine 1.0 Woohoo. Yes, there will be incompatibilities, but it seems the principals feel it's ready for a 1.0 tag. Great news.3-May 15:07
2172btiffinhttp://www.winehq.org for more info.3-May 15:04
2171btiffinAnd the developers are gamers too, so the list of supported apps usually starts with games, then works down through the other applications.3-May 15:02
2170btiffinNever tried Virtualbox. Wine is great though. WineHQ pumps out releases on a very regular basis. It gets better everyday and they package it up for apt, rpm and most GNU/Linux binary package managers.3-May 15:01
2169LouisDo you recommend wine over Virtualbox?3-May 14:59
2168LouisMy XP machine presently freezes up randomly. It may be caused by a virus, but Kapersky can't find it. Ghost will not boot up to restore my backup. So, I'm rather disgusted with XP at the moment. Actually, I don't even want to run it under Virtualbox.3-May 14:59
2167btiffinWine is your friend for most Windows needs under GNU/Linux. It's just better, smarter, stronger. But ... it does require learning a little bit about computing. Something MS seems to want to keep to themselves for that whole, lock in mentality their stock price is based on.3-May 14:58
2166Louism hoping they will work on XP runnning under Virtualbox.3-May 14:55
2165Louisbtiffin, Well, I've had many problems with XP, so I'm ready to move on. Most of the software I'm been using on XP was ported from Linus. Only a few are genuine XP programs. So, I'3-May 14:54
2164btiffinWell worth the effort Louis. GNU/Linux is and always has been my favourite "IDE". :)3-May 14:36
2163GeomolYou're welcome! :-)3-May 11:27
2162LouisOk, that works. Thanks! I can see that I have a little bit of studying to do to learn the commands .3-May 11:26
2161GeomolI'm afraid not. You still have to be some kind of a hacker to get some things working under Linux. Try: ./rebol or put rebol in a location, where you path point to. E.g.: /usr/local/bin/3-May 11:13
2160LouisDad@sim-v:~/rebol-276$ chmod +x rebol Dad@sim-v:~/rebol-276$ rebol bash: rebol: command not found3-May 11:12
2159Louislibc? I'm new to Linux, so is very likely something very simple.3-May 11:09
2158GeomolThe last thing, I can think of, is correct version of libc.3-May 11:08
2157GeomolHm, strange. And rebol is executable? chmod +x rebol3-May 11:06
2156LouisNo success.3-May 11:05
2155LouisNo, that is a good idea. I'll try.3-May 10:59
2154GeomolHave you tried starting rebol from a terminal program?3-May 10:56
2153LouisI think you are right, Geomol. Neither Linux x86 nor Linux PPC will work for me. I'm probably doing something wrong.3-May 10:49
2152Louisrebview-ppc.gzip contains rebview-ppc.gzip. Is that what it is supposed to contain?3-May 10:39
2151GeomolAnd PlayStation 3.3-May 10:38
2150GeomolLike some Mac computers.3-May 10:37
2149GeomolLinux running on PowerPC hardware, I guess.3-May 10:37
2148LouisWhat is Linux PPC?3-May 10:36
2147LouisYes.3-May 9:15
2146HenrikLouis, rebol 2.7.6?3-May 9:10
2145Louist load again.3-May 9:03
2144LouisBut rebolview for Debian does not load on my Kubuntu machine. Well, actually it loads, but after I give my user info it dies and won'3-May 9:03
2143LouisHummm. I'm using AltMe on a 64 bit Linux box, so I guess that is my answer.3-May 9:01
2142LouisWill rebol run on a 64 bit Linux box? or only 32 bit?3-May 9:00
2141btiffinThat news has been hanging over ReiserFS for a long time now. At least people know now. Ext3 has always treated me ok. My guess is, ReiserFS will lose to Ext3. OR ... get a name change, quick fix to the politics.1-May 2:34
2140Henriksounds like a slashdot headline30-Apr 20:47
2139Grahamreally??30-Apr 20:27
2138Graham"The Open Source community took an emotional hit when veteran Linux programmer Hans Reiser was convicted of first degree murder. How will this verdict impact the technology in play for Linux file system dominance? "30-Apr 20:27
2137Antonbtiffin, ok, so using a key with ssh looks like a good thing to do then. It's on my list.... :)12-Apr 6:37
2136AntonI'm quite familiar with rsync since last year, when I used it to transfer a whole bunch of files from WinXP to Kubuntu.12-Apr 6:29
2135AntonI already have ssh, scp and fish installed, so I avoid adding another package on top...12-Apr 6:27
2134AntonNorman, sshFS looks useful (but I'll keep that for a future project).12-Apr 6:26
2133btiffinUmm, read that link Anton. You can set authorization keys for SSH. It takes a liitle to setup, but handy dandy once set. Then you can disallow password login. And if you don't know the machine and have shared keys, no looky no touchy. It's part of what I'd like to see with the REBOL ring of trust. Digital signatures.12-Apr 6:14
2132AntonWill, I'm not sure what you mean about using a key instead of a password. Wouldn't I still need to login to my box ? Or does using a separate ssh key just mean that it's easier to revoke access (without having to change my root password) ?12-Apr 6:11
2131btiffinYes; there are quite a few ways to secure Secure Shell ... but you do have to stay on your toes. Just turning it on ... bad idea. ;) With most distros that is ... Cygwin included. There are copies that default to lockdown and you have to work to open them up, but those are the exception still. Assigning ports above 1024 is always smart, and the $40 firewall routers can easily be setup to forward port 22 or 80 etc, to a usermode port. You might still get broken into, but at least not with root access. And hey, iptables is fun stuff. Light reading. :)

And, just because I'm being gabby ... rsync is a wonderful tool if you have multiple nodes and want hot backups. This article expalins how to set it up, and while doing so, explains setting up ssh keys and locking things down. http://www.debianhelp.co.uk/rsync.htm

11-Apr 18:08
2130NormanDepAnton... You could use "FUSE" very easy quick sshFS mount... works like a charm. no sftp scp or ssh needed to access the remote fs....http://fuse.sourceforge.net/sshfs.html11-Apr 17:20
2129Willwouldn't it be better to disable password, use a key, move from port 22 to some other port (just to reduce noise) , port knocking.. ?11-Apr 17:03
2128AntonI think that needs a port-forwarding rule and there isn't one enabled for ssh.11-Apr 14:57
2127AntonThat's true, actually, the remote computer could be compromised and then keylog me. But I set up the "remote" computer, being my flatmate's in the next room. I can't remember if our firewall allows ssh between local and wide area network...11-Apr 14:49
2126Anton:-)11-Apr 14:43
2125NormanDepAnton.. dont be fooled by thinking your ssh password is save.. the remote root user knows it anyway... ;-)11-Apr 11:46
2124AntonThanks Brian, I will investigate further this delay. I have a long password, so brute force attackers should be kept at bay.11-Apr 3:38
2123btiffin45 seconds seeems long. My nodes usually (including Dev - old) in under 4. One point; you set no root login in /etc/ssh/sshd_config ? Otherwise brute force password attackers will try, and try, and try... I'm not sure why ssh ships with root login enabled. If an admin is remote configuring a bunch of nodes, let them configure it to allow; ti shouldn't be a default imho.9-Apr 12:30
2122AntonI have sshd running on my Kubuntu, and when I fish: across to it from another kubuntu box on the local network, it takes a long time to connect. Today I counted 45 seconds before authentication dialog popped up. I think I remember reading something about a delay for encryption etc. but I'm wondering if that's a "normal" length of time to wait.9-Apr 11:05
2121Anton(I umount it myself)5-Apr 15:55
2120Anton(sorry, HAL error, during "Safely remove").5-Apr 15:54
2119AntonKaj, you're right. dd works at device level. After practising my mount skillz, I can automount it 'ro', so this is looking good. (There is only a HAL error to deal with now, during unmount.)5-Apr 15:48
2118KajAlso, you would only be able to restore the dd backup to a disk of exactly the same size5-Apr 14:13
2117KajFor backup purposes, be aware that dd-ing a partition mounted read-write is likely to result in a more or less inconsisten state of the backup, as data is changed on the partition at the same time, and dd has no knowledge of the file structure5-Apr 14:13
2116KajOtherwise, indeed mount it read-only5-Apr 14:11
2115KajUnless I'm very mistaken, you don't have to mount a disk to dd it, as dd works on bare disk blocks5-Apr 14:10
2114KajMounting it on juggernauts like (K)Ubuntu is also likely to unleash automatic indexing tools on the partition5-Apr 14:09
2113AntonYes, this all makes sense in retrospect, now. Thanks for the confirmation.5-Apr 9:24
2112Gabrieleif it's journaled, mounting it will probably change the journal. also, mounting it will surely change a flag in the filesystem. you need to mount it read only.5-Apr 9:08
2111btiffinI'm a little bit confused; I didn't read the dd and gzip part until just now. You want a compressed mirror? I don't think that will ever cmp true to the original. dd will include partition table info that is normally "invisible to the naked eye". Including that in the compressed file doesn't give dd the chance to dump the invisible bits back into invisible places.

Or am I more than just a little bit confused? Maybe Kaj will come by shortly and fill us in with the technicals instead of the voodoo. :)

5-Apr 4:29
2110AntonYes... (damn)... this discussion of atime agrees with that http://lwn.net/Articles/244829/5-Apr 2:37
2109btiffinLinux does track accesstime to files. So, I'd wouldn't be surprised if mounting doesn't touch at least a few bits.4-Apr 16:44
2108AntonBut the evidence collected so far does not support this theory strongly, actually... Hmm... It's confusing.4-Apr 15:58
2107AntonFrom the depths of my memory comes a blurry message from someone who did this exact thing... I think I should have made sure not to automount it, and only mount it read-only. :-/4-Apr 15:53
2106AntonDoes mounting a filesystem change anything on the filesystem ? I'm on Kubuntu and I've taken a new laptop's 80GB internal disk into an external drive enclosure and connected it via USB to my computer. Kubuntu detected it and automounted the filesystem. My task was to duplicate the disk, in the pursuit of which I've used various combinations of dd and gzip. However, I can't get a straight 80GB image to compare equally (using cmp or diff) with a compressed image. (I decompress the compressed image on the fly and pipe it into cmp.) After many hours, it occurs to me that having the filesystem mounted might be changing it slightly over time... which would make my images different. (This would make my mission a failure, as I wanted a pristine image.) So can anyone answer the above question ?4-Apr 15:25
2105KajIn fact, Syllable used to have a very primitive scheduler and was already as responsive as now, except for some corner cases2-Apr 12:24
2104KajMajor apps like Thunderbird and REBOL effectively locking the rest of the system means that the system is not meaningfully handling apps in a concurrent way, so I would venture to say that the scheduler has very little if any effect on this2-Apr 12:19
2103KajA scheduler is not much use if the rest of the system doesn't present meaningful pieces to schedule2-Apr 12:16
2102KajImproving one segment of a chain, even if it's the weakest one, only exposes the next-weakest2-Apr 12:09
2101KajWe've been hearing that and similar claims for a decade2-Apr 12:07
2100btiffinBut a user-oriented scheduler versus a server-oriented scheduler (as Kaj mentioned with Syllable already on the crest) will be the next wave in Desktop Linux, umm, I hope.1-Apr 13:58
2099AntonI'll look at priocntl too.1-Apr 13:55
2098AntonKaj, that is a good feature.1-Apr 13:53
2097btiffinAnd priocntl may help too1-Apr 13:53
2096AntonGood idea, I will see how nice changes things.1-Apr 13:52
2095btiffinAnton; look at nice1-Apr 13:50
2094AntonI just read about AppArmor being used more in Ubuntu 8.04 HardyHeron. I will look into that.1-Apr 13:49
2093Antonstats - inside rebol. Hmm.. that could help sometime, but I'm looking for something that can restrict any linux app.1-Apr 13:47
2092KajWe've had bugs with some applet using 100% CPU that people didn't notice for a long while because it didn't affect operation :-)1-Apr 12:27
2091KajUse Syllable. :-) It gives scheduling priority to the user interface1-Apr 12:26
2090Oldesbut maybe it's not exactly what you want:)1-Apr 7:48
2089Oldesyes... I call stats quite often.. it's part of my test function which also counts time required to eval the script I test. If there is momory is expanding, I know, that something is wrong in the script quite soon. (but I code almost in core, in view it can be more difficult)1-Apr 7:47
2088AntonAnybody tried something else ?1-Apr 5:43
2087AntonMy first solution is to use Monit to monitor a particular process and automatically take action when it uses too much memory etc.1-Apr 5:43
2086AntonDoes anyone have any methods for limiting process resource utilization ? I have two situations in linux where (single-core) CPU is maxxed out, which makes it very slow to manipulate desktop environment, open process manager etc. The first case is Thunderbird, which maxxes cpu sometimes. The second case is developing with rebol linux build. It sometimes goes ballistic, eating memory like there's no tomorrow. Pretty soon the system is paging madly and it's very difficult to analyse the situation and shut it down.1-Apr 5:41
2085Gabrieleof course Windows has to be an exception.31-Mar 8:35
2084Gabrieleyes, in most operating system you can unlink a file while it's being used. the file will disappear from the directory structure but will still be taking space on disk as long as it's being used. as soon as all the references to it go away, the disk space is freed.31-Mar 8:35
2083AntonSo it looks quite possible for a binary to delete the file it came from. I'm using Kubuntu.31-Mar 5:46
2082AntonA test in which RM is used to delete itself. $ which rm /bin/rm $ mkdir test $ cp /bin/rm test/ $ cd test $ ls -l total 36 -rwxr-xr-x 1 anton anton 34600 2008-03-31 16:43 rm $ ./rm rm $ ls -l total 031-Mar 5:45
2081GrahamWindows won't allow that for encapped apps.31-Mar 2:56
2080GrahamI can overwrite it while I'm running it?31-Mar 2:55
2079BrianHIf you know what the target file is, then you can overwrite it if you have the permissions. Finding out what the target file is may need a shell command though.31-Mar 0:18
2078Grahamor do I need to use a shell script ?30-Mar 19:25
2077GrahamIf I wish to upgrade/replace the binary I am currently running, and I am running it from a symlink, can I just overwrite the target file?30-Mar 19:24
2076IzkataI have some C code that creates an icon in there, but nothing more.30-Mar 9:27
2075IzkataGraham's talking about the Notification Area applet, not gnome-panel itself

And as far as I know, it's not doable yet.

30-Mar 9:25
2074RobertBTW: The hanging happens even for connection to "localhost". But those connections are resolved via the machine name and a DNS lookup. The DNS server is operated by an external provider.30-Mar 8:39
2073RobertMy problem is, I don't know how I can track down the problem. The logs don't contain anything.30-Mar 8:38
2072RobertThe setup works but from time to time the port forwarding is stalling. The forwarded connection is initiated (I can't check if it's made successfully ) but that's it. It hangs. Than after some time (a couple of days) it's working without any problems.30-Mar 8:37
2071RobertAny SSH / OpenVPN experts here? I have a little strange problem. I run my SSHD on port 443, so that I can connect to it via a HTTPS proxy. Than I use "dynamic portforwarding" to tunnel all kind of applications through the SSH connect.30-Mar 8:36
2070BrianHYeah. That second example should fail.29-Mar 23:57
2069GrahamIsn't this a little inconsistent?

dir? %/root == true read %/root == "" read %/root/ == [ %.bashrc ..... etc ]

29-Mar 22:21
2068Grahamand Rebol ?29-Mar 19:14
2067KajIf you mean how to write such an applet, you'll have to look up the documentation. It's probably done in C and there are likely some bindings to languages such as Python29-Mar 13:25
2066KajIt's just a panel. Right-click on a panel and choose Add to add applets to them29-Mar 13:24
2065Gabrielei bet there's some CORBA involved ;)29-Mar 9:07
2064GrahamOn gnome, you have this system tray which on Ubuntu is at the top right. Anyone know how to place an icon there as in windows?29-Mar 6:10
2063AntonI'm not sure I want to pursue that route at the moment. It makes for more brittle code. But I will note it down if there is no alternative. I've noticed that the Windows build running in Wine seems to be "immune" to symbolic links (which I think just makes an access error, and be ignored.)27-Mar 5:22
2062btiffinYeah if you do go bash, (I'm not sure how you get your file list) ls -F will append @ to links instead of looping over test -h27-Mar 5:17
2061Antonsubmitted a Wish27-Mar 5:15
2060btiffinYep. yep. Good. :)27-Mar 4:50
2059AntonI'm going to check RAMBO.27-Mar 4:49
2058AntonIt would be much nicer if rebol could find out this information directly.27-Mar 4:47
2057AntonThat's an idea. But you have to admit it's messy.27-Mar 4:46
2056btiffinin that case, I'd shell script the tests and then call/output it27-Mar 4:45
2055AntonThanks for the ideas.27-Mar 4:45
2054AntonThat would need to be done for every file and would slow down the filesearch considerably.27-Mar 4:44
2053btiffinYou could look to 'copy-modes but I doubt it Otherwise you'll need to call/info with one of the bash test commands. -h I think.27-Mar 4:43
2052Antonfile-modes doesn't seem to have anything >> print mold new-line/all/skip get-modes %Desktop get-modes %Desktop/ 'file-modes on 2 [ status-change-date: 26-Mar-2008/12:29:33+11:00 modification-date: 26-Mar-2008/12:29:33+11:00 access-date: 27-Mar-2008/13:29:25+11:00 owner-name: "anton" group-name: "anton" owner-id: 1000 group-id: 1000 owner-read: true owner-write: true owner-execute: true group-read: true group-write: false group-execute: true world-read: true world-write: false world-execute: true set-user-id: false set-group-id: false full-path: %/home/anton/.wine/dosdevices/c:/windows/profiles/anton/Desktop ]27-Mar 4:42
2051btiffinand then 'port-modes and ???27-Mar 4:38
2050AntonI'll try it.27-Mar 4:37
2049btiffinI'd start with get-modes ... 'file-modes but I can't test from here on Win9827-Mar 4:37
2048AntonI'm trying to fix my recursive file searcher. My wine installation creates some symlinks which point up to a parent directory, creating an infinite loop.27-Mar 4:35
2047AntonDid anyone find a method to determine if a file is actually a symlink ?27-Mar 4:28
2046Grahamcp -u /source/* /target/

is a lot shorter than writing it in REBOL.

22-Mar 20:01
2045GreggFaster to write, or faster to run? I recently had to move a bunch of data and used XXCopy, because I thought it would be faster than REBOL (couldn't get robocopy for the old W2K machine I needed it on). After it took 34 hours to copy the data, I'm pretty sure REBOL would have been just as fast, or faster.22-Mar 19:46
2044Grahambecause it's faster to use shell scripts .. me thinks22-Mar 9:01
2043RobertGraham, why not use Rebol for it at all? No need for shell scripts.22-Mar 8:40
2042btiffin:)22-Mar 4:10
2041Grahamthanks Brian.22-Mar 1:40
2040btiffinOh and no space a=` a = ` not the same22-Mar 0:48
2039btiffinThose are backticks. Assuming bash.22-Mar 0:48
2038btiffin$ a=`date +%D` $ echo $a $ mv $backupfile $a # use date --help to see the plethora of date format specs22-Mar 0:47
2037GrahamI could use Rebol to create the backup script on the fly I guess and then run it.22-Mar 0:33
2036Grahamsorry, I wasn't clear .. I want to name the file with today's date and time.22-Mar 0:32
2035btiffinor is it more nerd and little bit gross sexy, to say man touch22-Mar 0:21
2034btiffinlook to touch22-Mar 0:21
2033GrahamI want to create a backup script that calls a backup utility, but I want to create the target file with today's date and time.21-Mar 21:48
2032GrahamAny shell users here?21-Mar 21:46
2031btiffinyeah; one of the last frontiers; ease of use. But it is progressing. It's a little bit too sad that the y2k thing gutted IT money (not that the whole .com thing didn't need a good slap to the face) but there were some corporate players taking all their funny money and setting up OSS departments. That died an untimely death imho, while corporate got mad about spending billions to protect against fudiciary responsibility around legacy code and then got nothing in return. No more funny money for the IT department ... since? So now we rely on one of "us" to get the itch and dig in. Some do. But it is time consuming and somewhat boring clicking through the same installer screen 1000 times to cover (some fraction of) all the bases. :)15-Mar 18:43
2030Alaninstalled=installer15-Mar 17:06
2029AlanI justed installed Kubuntu on this machine BUT the installed leaves a lot of room for improvement.If I had never installed a Linux distro before,Kubuntu for the normal Windows user would have them saying "f*** Linux. The install gui does not have a progress bar and when it is done installing, it does not let the user know the install is done and what to do next :( Mandriva on the other hand has an excellent install gui. If the major distros could work on a unified install gui it would be worth its weight in salt. I did see an effort to that end by 2 different ppl but they can not work together because of design/programming ideas :( Linux on the desktop works well once installed/configed but still it not made for joe six pack15-Mar 17:05
2028PaulBTW thanks for telling me how to pronounce this ubuntu. That was bugging me for a couple days.13-Mar 3:23
2027Paullol13-Mar 3:22
2026btiffinPaul; yep, leave the Money Suck corporation behind ... send money to RT instead. :) And umm, it's ubuntu ... something about peace, live, share, "be human" in Zulu. It's nice but it's not Debian. Love the non-obvious pronunciation names. REBOL, Debra and Ian for Deb-ian and ooboontoo or some such. :) And here I am stuck on a Win98 box and Carl just fixed CALL on the Linux side :(13-Mar 0:35
2025PaulMan this unbuntu is awesome! Why they heck does anyone pay for M$? I guess it is because people like me didn't know this stuff had progressed to this point. My last dip into linux was Redhat 5.1 and it didn't touch M$ from an end user perspective but I think with Unbuntu it has arrived.12-Mar 23:35
2024GrahamSpoke too soon ... :((11-Mar 19:46
2023GrahamI may have found another solution. I changed my column from decimal to float, and now it appears to be preserving the power. Whereas with decimal it was changing the power to 0 each time.11-Mar 10:51
2022GrahamDec 200510-Mar 10:21
2021GrahamI did some more testing .. and using rebcmd 2.7.5, I can save decimals correctly. I wonder if the problem is because I'm using the very old but latest encmdface which is 2.6.2 from Nov 2005 ?10-Mar 10:21
2020GrahamIf worse comes to worse, I'll have to store as int instead and recast using a trigger.10-Mar 8:56
2019GrahamGabriele, it's odd because I can retrieve decimal values but can't store them correctly. I don't think the database will recast for me automatically but will have to try it. More likely I'll get an odbc error.10-Mar 8:55
2018btiffinCrappy. I had Kubuntu 6 Live do that on a lot of the machines I tried, but that was X and the mouse duking it out. Never had a Debian install fail, but I have had to boot single user to tweak X11 config, but that all went away with the transition to Xorg. ... knocks on wooden brain ... so far.10-Mar 1:07
2017PaulCool. I just had to restart Unbuntu as it locked up during the installation process.10-Mar 0:26
2016btiffinOh, and if do have a spare hour or two, don't forget to test Syllable. There is a group here for it. Some of the principals of Syllable development are rebols at heart. :) The Desktop can be tested from a Live Boot.10-Mar 0:12
2015PaulThanks Brian. Good info.9-Mar 23:40
2014btiffinimho; Ubuntu is the current up and comer. Ubuntu ships with a defaut set of packages more tuned for running Gnome as the desktop. Kubuntu ships with a default KDE setup. The Ubuntu family is spin off of Debian ... Debian is my personal favourite. The RHEL branches don't seem to do it for me quite as much. Ubuntu is well supported with a growing community and a fairly well off benefactor. Canonical is funded. I'm pretty sure they still support the WeShipIt program where you can order CD's for free - shipping paid by Canonical. Pretty sweet. But imho Debian is a little more solid; years between releases. Canonical likes to stick to a 6 month updgrade schedule. So you get new shiny every 6 months, but ... running a business on it, I prefer the soak time Debian affords.

GNU/Linux commands are fairly standard across the board. It's the config, and helper apps that diverge the most. (That alone causes a mess in GNU/Linux land but POSIX is POSIX). Things don't really diverge low-level till you enter the other free unix clones like FreeBSD. One thing to watch on the horizon is OpenSolaris. If it rolls out as it should, it could well be the player to take in Linus. And Ian Murdoch (the man beside Debra in Debian) works at Sun now, so ...

In short, Ubuntu good. :) But, I prefer it's parent, Debian. If you check the IRC channels on Freenode, #debian is ruthless, brooks no guff, with awesome technical support. #ubuntu seems a little more people friendly and perhaps more likely to effectively help new users. Umm, don't go asking Ubuntu questions on #debian. They seem to have a little bit of jealousy toward the younger upstart with all the flash cash. :)

distrowatch.com will tell you pretty much anything you want to know.

9-Mar 23:37
2013PaulI just sstarted downloading this ubuntu linux OS. I don't know much about it. My last venture into Linux was REDHAT 5.2 which was sometime ago. Can someone tell me how ubuntu compares to other linux flavors and if it is pretty standard. If I'm going to learn linux I would rather learn what is the most useful set of commands that enables me to use the most distributions of linux.9-Mar 14:47
2012Gabrielemaybe try sending as string instead? will the driver accept it?9-Mar 13:44
2011Gabrielehmm, that won't be easy to workaround i guess :(9-Mar 13:43
2010GrahamSo, .01 gets stored as 1.000 as does 1000 !9-Mar 8:43
2009GrahamIt looks like this ecvt bug is biting me again. I got ODBC working under Wine, but when I insert a decimal value into a decimal field under ODBC, the value gets converted to what looks like a scientifc value without the exponent.9-Mar 8:43
2008GrahamTa.6-Mar 21:53
2007AntonGraham, any other required libs can be determined with ldd.5-Mar 16:05
2006KajI guess4-Mar 22:43
2005GrahamIf one wishes to run a View encapped application on a server distro of ubuntu, is this all one has to do http://softinnov.org/cheyenne/blog.cgi?view=0014 ?4-Mar 18:33
2004GrahamAGG fonts only working under Debian distros still?24-Feb 18:23
2003Graham2.7.6 then24-Feb 18:23
2002GabrieleCarl knows about the call linux bug since quite some time... and I have provided him with what I think could fix it (but I have no way to test the fix). Qtask needs this bug fixed too, so one can say it's reasonably high priority. :)24-Feb 9:16
2001GrahamGood to know. I messaged my user to let him know of this easier method.23-Feb 19:29
2000DockimbelYes, it will download and correctly install libstdc++5.23-Feb 19:21
1999IngoHmmm, I have libstdc++5 installed.23-Feb 19:14
1998GrahamTrue type fonts appear to be working for me in Ubuntu 7.04 ...23-Feb 19:13
1997GrahamDunno. Will that work? :)23-Feb 19:12
1996DockimbelThat answer look overly complicated to me. Why not just : sudo apt-get install libstdc++5 ?23-Feb 19:03
1995GrahamEncapped app complained. Anyway, this is an answer I found http://www.debugmode.com/userforums/viewtopic.php?t=612523-Feb 18:57
1994IngoView 2.7.5.4.2 worked for me out of the box on a freshly installed Ubuntu 7.1023-Feb 18:45
1993GrahamAnyone know what I need to do to get view running on Ubuntu 7.10 ? libstdc++.so.5 is missing. And sym linking to ibstdc++.so.6.0.9 doesn't work.23-Feb 17:44
1992KajThat's a serious bug23-Feb 14:02
1991GrahamGabriele .. are these bugs ( and the lack of scalable font support in draw ) being addressed in 2.7.6 ?23-Feb 9:44
1990GrahamIt returns 0 if used from the rebol console .. but other numbers if used from an encapped app.23-Feb 9:43
1989GrahamI never knew that.23-Feb 9:42
1988Grahamcrap.23-Feb 9:42
1987GabrieleCALL has a bug in Linux (and other Unix), it just returns a random number...23-Feb 9:00
1986AntonDoes the same command return non zero in the linux console only ?23-Feb 3:13
1985AntonI remember something about that... I think it was a "rebolism".23-Feb 3:12
1984GrahamI'm using call and call/wait to invoke gs to convert ps files to pdf. Anyone know why the return code can be non zero on linux and yet it is still doing the conversion??22-Feb 23:51
1983GrahamNope, mine is too old. Anyone got the latest functional Linux 'enface prior to 2.7.5 ?21-Feb 21:37
1982GrahamWell, I found an older Linux SDK so i guess I can work with that.21-Feb 20:11

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