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1701RobertYes, it's an ARI tool. Very nice and simple to use.29-Dec-09 8:45
1700McheanBalsamiq Mockups Robert ?28-Dec-09 20:42
1699RobertNot tested yet but that's the right idea.28-Dec-09 20:27
1698RobertI use Balsamico for my mock-ups. I like the tool a lot. And it can convert mock-ups to code via emitters.28-Dec-09 20:27
1697GeomolMany of the problems arise, because designers/developers/programmers try to make html do, what it wasn't supposed to do in the first place.

When making a movie, one might start out by drawing a storyboard. Later in the process, a camera is used to shoot some film, and in the end a story is told, that may or may not be close to the original storyboard. But it works, because the final output (images within a frame) is the same kind of thoughts that goes into creating the storyboard (images within a frame).

Designers think in the line of the final output, but html isn't wysiwyg, and the html technology might not be well suited for the ideas, the designer has. So problems arise. ... Or something. ;-)

28-Dec-09 16:50
1696PekrXara pretends to be such a tool, but otoh I did not found, how to easily adjust using code ..... 12:18
1695ReichartIsn't the WHOLE thing simply insane? After all these years, there is not a tool that allows both programmers and artists to work on the SAME data? All strange...28-Dec-09 12:12
1694HenrikI've once worked with this process of first having a designer building mockups in photoshop, then they were moved to Dreamweaver and I had to "graft" javascript on top of it, and whenever the designer made a change, I had to start from scratch. The customer demanded to see the site in full function. We moved so slowly, the project was dropped after a few months.

Another time, I finished the project, but it took so long to do, because the design was nearly impossible to convert to HTML/JS. That was 5 years ago.

And people are just realizing this now?

28-Dec-09 10:51
1693Pekrmy friend works the opposite way - design proposals are done in Photoshop, then he cuts it into the markup .... (sometimes wondering it "feels" differently to what he originally did in Photoshop :-)28-Dec-09 10:40
1692HenrikI don't get it... I've always built websites like that. Using a paint program to do it is just impossible. :-)28-Dec-09 10:23
1691PekrInteresting pov onto website creation - 9:45
1690RobertOn OSX you can use like every other library. Fully available via objective-c interface.19-Oct-09 9:55
1689Maxim(webkit is the engine powering chrome and safari, if you wonder)18-Oct-09 23:05
1688MaximAny one looked at webkit, code-wise? I mean, using, has used, tried to use it, participating in it, anything.

18-Oct-09 22:37
1687Pekrfew different pixels here or there never mind :-)20-Sep-09 22:22
1686Maximwelll all browsers render stuff differently, chrome FF and safari included.20-Sep-09 22:21
1685HenrikCuriously I find you have to ask that quite often. Still so many IE users around.20-Sep-09 22:05
1684DockimbelThere's also a page at advocating for web-based software : One of the advantage listed is : "You’ll never have to ask “Is it compatible?”"...good joke:-)20-Sep-09 21:55
1683OldesI use mix of tables and CSS for layouts:) I don't remember exact cases now, but I had problems to do some layouts with just CSS (working not just in one browser).20-Sep-09 21:50
1682Maximthe web is a good distibution system... its just about all it really does pefectly... and that's the only thing it was designed to do.

I don't agree that web programming itself is easier, unless you really are doing easy apps.

IMHO Rich clients are the best of both worlds combined into one seamless experience

20-Sep-09 21:12
1681Will 20:59
1680PekrI'll go with table free design for layout. I talked to few ppl and most don't use table for layout anymore ...19-Jul-09 9:08
1679Jankobasically tables don't presend the "information structure" of the site well, that is why they don't degrade well, cause problems to screen readers.. etc18-Jul-09 22:20
1678JankoI use tables to presend data that belongs into tables and where it makes sense. I didn't use tables for general layout in a long time. I am not any purist but I find other ways much better than tables for this. It can make quite messy code and they don't degrade well to smaller screens.. etc..18-Jul-09 22:19
1677ChrisI'd possibly consider myself a CSS 'purist' - I like that it encourages a language oriented approach to page/site design (not a language of Rebol's calibre, indeed, but a nod in that direction : ) The trade off can be in the complexity in implementing layout, but really there are few patterns that have not been mapped out.18-Jul-09 20:17
1676ChrisDepends to what degree you use html to define visual aspects. The comparison above is talking old school page design where your markup contains all the bgcolors, widths, font colours, etc. (FrontPage-esque) Typically this approach does significantly increase page size. Using tables mainly as an alternative to <div> as a way to divide up page components in an otherwise CSS driven design isn't going to be at all costly in comparison. Actual bandwidth cost I guess is case specific.18-Jul-09 20:09
1675Henriksorry: "But it's ridiculous to assume that CSS/DIVs are the main bandwidth hogs for webpages.", should be: "But it's ridiculous to assume that tables are more of a bandwidth hog than CSS/DIVs for webpages."12-Jul-09 20:41
1674HenrikOf all these points, perhaps accessability is the only valid reason for not using tables. If you know how to use CSS and DIVs to produce table-like results, fine. But it's ridiculous to assume that CSS/DIVs are the main bandwidth hogs for webpages. Sorry, not buying that.12-Jul-09 20:39
1673Pekrthanks ....12-Jul-09 19:49
1672SunandaThere have been close to holy wars between the CSS purists and those who use tables for everything. The best position is one that balances the needs and priorities of your website and development team's aptitudes. Here'ssome arguments for as few tables as possible for layout purposes (it's taken for granted that tables are good for tabular data): 19:46
1671Pekrthanks. I can see e.g. big portals like our local using almost plain CSS. I noticed it on my cell phone, when FUP applied. The html is one long page, which then gets distributed around the site upon the CSS, once it is loaded ....12-Jul-09 19:34
1670BrockAgreed with Henrik. If you aren't expecting the site to be on mulitple end-user hardware platforms and not expecting drastic user customizable styles, I don't see the need to avoid tables for the layout. CSS just for the fine-tuning.12-Jul-09 19:30
1669HenrikI don't know what it is about doing table-free designs, but I personally think it's damn hard to do. You have some parameters that you can adjust for CSS that are cryptic and difficult to guess how the layout will be. With a table, you have cells, adjustment, width and many predictable elements. I think it's because CSS is underpowered for what it's meant to do, and the ability to separate design from content (desktop vs. phones) is a tad overrated, if it just makes site design and construction that much harder.12-Jul-09 19:06
1668PekrOne question towards webdesign aproach. I need to red one site. I want to make it based upon CSS of course. Now I can see, that some sites use completly table-free design, simply one long html, where CSS takes care of the final placement. OTOH some other sites do use tables at least for some basic page division (columns, sections). Which aproach do you suggest? What will in the long turn make my life easier, e.g. if change is needed? To adapt CSS, or to add cell to table, adding some column plus CSS?12-Jul-09 18:24
1667ChrisNo, QM has it's own separate RSP implementation.25-May-09 17:54
1666RobertI'm trying to find out what's the "best practice" process for forms is. But after a bit of research I think it's: Do it by hand. Forms are not very complicated. All the generators, tools etc. are quite limited when it comes how to process a form. I use MooTools as AJAK lib and it has some very nice validator things.25-May-09 17:36
1665RobertIs QM integrated into RSP pages? I think I need to take a closer look (and hope I will get it).25-May-09 17:35
1664ChrisWith QM, I use QuickTags (integrated into RSP or standalone) to build the form elements, and then wrap common constructs in functions.for data-driven forms. It's not as pure as say, Henrik's HTML dialect, but perhaps has the flexibility of being at markup level.

Alternatively I have a make-doc dialect (somewhat rough) that I use for forms on my site wiki.!Edit_Form?format=raw

25-May-09 16:56
1663RobertAnd, is there a REBOL version for something like PHPMailer?25-May-09 11:39
1662RobertForms: How do you make forms for web-pages? Do you use any "tools" or just hand-code them?25-May-09 11:35
1661Maximthanks for the link... so no svg on my new site... darn.25-May-09 9:00
1660SunandaThis says no -- but 3party support is possible: 8:52
1659Maximis IE7 svg capable?25-May-09 8:47
1658PeterWoodThanks, Doc. I look into that.25-May-09 8:15
1657DockimbelThen, you can try with HTTP chunked encoding (, it's the classic way to stream HTML to the browser. Having the page displayed while downloading chunks is browser specific. It's implemented in Cheyenne's HTTPd, but reading that wikipedia page makes me wonder if it still works with the new automatic HTTP compression introduced in 0.9.19 (haven't done regression tests for that case).25-May-09 6:19
1656Maximthe client reply port anyways.24-May-09 23:20
1655MaximI've had this same problem before implementing custom-purpose web apps. http being connection based, i think most clients expect the connection to be closed.24-May-09 23:19
1654PeterWoodI'm now not sure if flushing the html to the borwser is necessry. I tried with a simple test. Firefox displayed the page immediately but the connection to the server was kept open. Safari didn't display the page unitl the connection to the server was closed.

I dug a lttle deeper into Apache Docs and it seems that Apache doesn't buffer simple html output.

It seems that the "problem" is getting the browser to display the html before the connection to the server is closed.

24-May-09 23:12
1653PeterWoodThanks for the tip Doc; I'll try it and report back.24-May-09 7:45
1652DockimbelNot tested, but might work for flushing CGI data : close system/ports/output24-May-09 7:43
1651PeterWoodSadly, even if you call a shell script that runs the rebol process :-(23-May-09 23:43
1650SunandaI tried to find such a "flush" mechanism for (running Apache under a generic GNU/Linux OS). It would have been very useful (still would be).......But I never found anything that worked.23-May-09 21:09
1649GrahamAnd if you called a shell script that ran the rebol process?23-May-09 21:04
1648PeterWoodIt would be much cleaner for me to be able to flush the output back to the browser and then do my housekeeping.23-May-09 12:37
1647PeterWoodGraham: I could spawn another process but have had problems with both using 'call to launch a second Rebol process on Mac OS X; any console output from the spawned Rebol session is sent to the browser in addition to the output it should receive from the cgi process.23-May-09 12:36
1646Oldes(but now when I see it here, it's not enough as the á char is not converted to utf8)23-May-09 9:43
1645Oldesprobe HTMLentities/decode "Základn&iacute; informace "23-May-09 9:41
1644OldesYou can use my script to convert it into UTF823-May-09 9:41
1643OldesPekr, it looks you are not alone: 9:39
1642Grahamshouldn't you just spawn another process to do the work and then return?23-May-09 8:14
1641Grahamthat would be a good trick23-May-09 8:13
1640PeterWoodHas anybody wriitten a "flush" function that sends data back to the browser before the CGI script has finished running?23-May-09 8:03
1639Pekrbtw - browser displays (escapes) it correctly. But our REBOL tool just parses it, and puts it into fields, so I need to decode it back ...12-May-09 10:27
1638PekrI have small tag editing tool for one portal, but something has changed. Few of subsites now are full of iaccute strings. I wonder when and how it happened, if during hand editing of some html files, but is there any easy way of how to decode it back to Czech codepage? I just checked, and all files have correct headers specifying charset=windows-1250. Or could it be some internal header problem? (BOM, Unicode related?)12-May-09 10:26
1637PeterWoodI went with So far so good. (My needs are probably much simpler than yours, Gregg).23-Apr-09 5:21
1636PeterWoodThanks Robert & Gregg.23-Apr-09 5:20
1635GreggI've used directnic for a long time. No problems that I can recall, but my needs have been very simple.22-Apr-09 21:13
1634Robertjoker.com17-Apr-09 7:23
1633PeterWoodThanks Janko & TomBon16-Apr-09 14:18, configure everything via web interface, cheap. since many years never had a problem.16-Apr-09 13:41
1631JankoI use the ones where I have the hosting, don't use godaddy , I sometimes go check domains at register.com16-Apr-09 12:45
1630PeterWoodAny recommendations for a domain registration service?16-Apr-09 12:24
1629KajYep13-Feb-09 19:53
1628Pekramacleod - isn't there /etc/hosts file? Maybe you could put it there? Generally, I use DNS based technique, pointing particular name to the particular IP. Even more interesting situation is, when you want to redirect public server IP to the internal IP on local network :-)12-Feb-09 1:20
1627amacleodOldes, That worked on my windows box. Thanks alot!

Anyone know how that works on a linux box?

12-Feb-09 1:07
1626amacleodI was going to use a linux server...I' may switch back to windows though..11-Feb-09 23:48
1625amacleodI'm using dyndns as I have a dynamic ip. If i type my url into the browser from a macine outside my local network I get my web page. If I do it from within my local network (even on a different machine) I can't not get through to the page "Cannot display webpage" error. It's not just http. I'm accessing a mysql server too with the same problem resulting. I know I can use "localhost but I would need to change my code everytime I'm using it locally.11-Feb-09 23:46
1624OldesIf you are on windows, check c:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\etc\hosts file11-Feb-09 23:08
1623Jankodo you have a domain name assigned to your computer? if it is then you can access it as anybody else ... I am not sure I understand ... if you have a virtual host set and you want to test if it works (and are on windos) you can add to hosts file in winnt/system32/drivers11-Feb-09 22:53
1622Brockthis is a guess, http://domainName/virtualFolderPath11-Feb-09 22:37
1621amacleodhhtp =http11-Feb-09 22:08
1620amacleodIn case its not clear...I'm running the hhtp server on the same machine that i want ot view the site with.11-Feb-09 22:08
1619amacleodAnyone know how to view a website you are are self hosting. I know you can view it using localhost but I want to use the url. I remember reading somewhere that it was possible but I can not find it now. Something about the DNS...11-Feb-09 22:07
1618sqlabNor did i read it. But I think I remember something like that.25-Jan-09 18:03
1617?Only book I had on REBOL was the Official Guide Book and they used my review for back in the day.25-Jan-09 17:55
1616?I don't know as I never read it.25-Jan-09 17:52
1615sqlabFrom the dark ages long gone; did not Ralph Roberts a shopping system in Rebol for his book Rebol for Dummies ?25-Jan-09 17:51
1614?Some other packaged coupled with oscommerce do the others you listed. There is no reason that REBOL can't do the same.25-Jan-09 17:31
1613?The last two are pretty much what Oscommerce does now.25-Jan-09 17:31
1612RobertLayout: Use what you like. Item presentation: Dead simple integration into existing pages. No frills, simple to change. Shopping Cart: Provides simple API that can be called via CGI Payment Forwarding: Plug-Ins where to route the payment process25-Jan-09 17:28
1611RobertOk, thanks for all this input. I will think about this a bit and see where to go. For me an online-shop system has to be made of independent modules.25-Jan-09 17:26
1610Robert;-)25-Jan-09 17:25
1609?Now, I'm a lot smarter ;-)25-Jan-09 16:40
1608?I made the mistake of enabling my entire inventory on Shopzilla once. Needless to say I had a LOT of traffic to mysite. I had a lot of order but I had my competative pricing on and ended up losing money in advertising costs because of it.25-Jan-09 16:39
1607?I used as my payment gateway. That was the plus side as is excellent.25-Jan-09 16:37
1606?I used an oscommerce customer package that I payed for from a service which populated my distributers content. they didn't support all my distributors which left me doing a lot of work.25-Jan-09 16:36
1605?I had 14,000+ items on sale and couldn't put another 6000 plus that I wanted to put online. And of the ones I did have online, I didn't have my best distributers content and pricing.25-Jan-09 16:35
1604?Well that was my main problem. I didn't like the layouts they presented either. In fact this is one reason why I got out of the business. It was costing me to much manual efforts to do the updating and I didn't have the time.25-Jan-09 16:34
1603RobertYes, I know oscommerce (or xtcommerce which is IIRC a fork). I use Rapidweaver for Web-Pages so I would like to integrate all this.

The problem I have is, that all these shop system push you to use their layout engine etc. There is none I know, that just does the non-gui backend part.

25-Jan-09 16:32
1602?Robert, if you just going to forward your items to another check-out-system then I thing that is something rather simply to implement via REBOL and CGI. It is when you want to use REBOL to handle the check-out system also with the interface to the payment gateway system is where I think many people had reservations about using a REBOL solution.25-Jan-09 16:31
1601?I do have experience using oscommerce and it worked very well but again not a REBOL solution but is at least an open source solution.25-Jan-09 16:25
1600?Robert I don't know of any and ask this same question long ago which is why I came up with the idea of Rcommerce which would be a REBOL based solution similiar to oscommerce. Many here were vocal about it not being something that anyone would trust so I let it the idea die.25-Jan-09 16:24
1599RobertHas anyone written a web-shopping cart system using Rebol? So a simple CGI api to add/remove stuff to a shopping cart? Felxible enough so that it can be integrated with existing web-pages and shopping cart content can be forward to different check-out system?25-Jan-09 16:14
1598RobertI now use Piwik. Free and Ok.25-Jan-09 16:13
1597PekrWe have basic Google tools, but we were suggested ClickTracks (now LyrisHQ). Other product might be NetMonitor ... any experience here?20-Jan-09 13:56
1596PekrDunno if this group is appropriate, but we don't have marketing related one. Does anyone use some advanced web access analytics to improve SEO?20-Jan-09 13:55
1595amacleodThanks Peter, I'll give those suggestions a try..19-Jan-09 5:28
1594PeterWoodThe Script Alias I use for Magic! is

ScriptAlias /magic/cgi-bin/ "/Users/peter/Sites/magic/cgi-bin/"

19-Jan-09 4:05

From your posting on the Rebol-France BB, it looks as though the formattng of your AddHandler declarations in your httpd.conf file are not correct.

I use these:

AddHandler cgi-script .cgi AddHandler cgi-script .r

#Following entry added to enable Magic! AddHandler magic .rhtml Action magic /magic/cgi-bin/magic.cgi

19-Jan-09 4:04
1592eFishAnt...meant RGBA = 14:01
1591eFishAntPerhaps that is a secret code. what's the tuple for lemon-juice? RGBA = 255.255.00 ?18-Jan-09 13:59
1590Chris{color: lemon-juice;}17-Jan-09 2:00
1589eFishAntChris, you could set your color settings to white on white...16-Jan-09 16:13
1588ChrisI've gone to lengths to make the source as transparent as possible (even if my commenting sucks).16-Jan-09 1:19
1587Chrisam: I'd encourage exploration of QM's source. Most of the code covers mezzanines that address typical WebApp problems. The philosophy is to 'Think REBOL'.16-Jan-09 1:18
1586ChrisEven if you chuck the View and Model parts, my Controller whips plain CGI : )16-Jan-09 1:05
1585ChrisI usually test new features starting there. That's where the flow is and you can do everything within the Controller context.16-Jan-09 1:00
1584ChrisYou can with QM, should you wish, only use the Controller. My (evolving) advice would be to learn QM by only using the Controller.16-Jan-09 0:57
1583amacleodI would like to see more examples of how this works. I kind of get why its nice to seperate tasks on a large scale site but is there still an advantage for a small self built/maintained site.15-Jan-09 21:37
1582RobertBest MVC example: OSX. The thing is not the separation all speak about (Model = Date, View = GUI, Control = App logic) but how to get it to work together. And this is (normally) done by passing messages between these three.

Like you click a button and a "loadrecord" message is sent to the Data part. IIRC the nice thing is, that more than one "function, object, ..." can react on such a message.

15-Jan-09 17:17
1581KajQM´s Controllers read and write data from Models and plug it into View templates, so there you have it15-Jan-09 16:52
1580Pekr.... but - I do rather primitive things. So maybe later with more advanced stuff, I might finally "get it"15-Jan-09 16:48
1579PekrIt is not about me not thinking about those issues, it is about finding "the ideal one". So far I like Gabriele's Temple for e.g.15-Jan-09 16:48
1578PekrI work with driving comments sections, which tell what kind of handler should parse/maintain sections, but without being destructive to existing design.15-Jan-09 16:47
1577PekrI am always thinking from such perspective! My simple tagging system completly separates presentation from scripts. In such regards, concept like rebol server pages is something I can't absolutly agree with. So if QM uses RSP, then where is the separation?15-Jan-09 16:46
1576KajWould you write 20.000 similar web pages for a web store, or would you write one template and store the properties of the goods in a database, for example?15-Jan-09 16:38
1575KajOnce you start thinking from the perspectives of very different people having to maintain very different aspects of systems, it makes perfect sense; and coincidentally also explains many of the problems with existing systems through lack of separation of concerns15-Jan-09 16:35
1574KajBasically always when someone thinks this separation is too complicated, he is thinking from his own perspective assuming he would have to maintain the whole site and hop between tasks15-Jan-09 16:34
1573KajYes, but Active Record is just an implementation of the Model and can be swapped out for something else15-Jan-09 16:29
1572KajI do agree it takes time to figure out MVC, and I think the terms are too much inspired by a technological point of view. It´s really about separating the concerns of the usual stakeholders working on websites, or applications in general: the programmer/database designer, the consultant designing the business logic, the graphics/UI designer and the secretary maintaining the content15-Jan-09 16:29
1571PekrNot mixing - those relate. Does not have QM as a framework an Active record like data organisation?15-Jan-09 16:28
1570KajYou´re mixing up MVC and Active Record, and I vaguely remember discussing this before15-Jan-09 16:25
1569PekrIf there is some full example implementation of some site for e.g., I could give it a try ... last time I tried was some year ago or so ...15-Jan-09 16:16
1568PekrI have to say, that I don't get that MVC concept at all. It seems to me, like some academic head came with that model some time back, while reality might be elsewhere. Do you really desing your apps, that its fits MVC model? E.g. that famous Ruby and other DB "automatic" schemas which are supposed be so cool have to be rudiculous to someone who actually knows SQL. Soon after you start reading docs you find out, that when you get to more complicated DB schema, they only provide you with excuses that you can't have everything. Sometimes frameworks work against you :-) Not that I would not understand their advantages otoh, hence I am asking, if QM is really so usefull? The thing is, that I tried to give it a try several times, and I did not know what to do actually, but maybe I am extremely stupid for such stuff, and am only able to work with plain cgi/fcgi ...15-Jan-09 16:15
1567KajMagic! could theoretically be an easier way to start, learning even less HTML, but if you can´t get through its configuration, you might as well start with QM15-Jan-09 15:49
1566KajWith QM you can basically build any website, without having to reinvent the wheel on the lower level web server technology, while with Magic you would quickly run into the walls of the provided functionality15-Jan-09 15:48
1565KajChris will correct me if I´m wrong, but I think that´s basically the point. :-) QM is a generic framework implementing a Model/View/Controller architecture that leaves you free to plug in parts for each, whereas Magic! offers a basic set of rigid REBOL web widgets15-Jan-09 15:46
1564ChrisYes.15-Jan-09 4:54
1563amacleodI've looked at QM but I did not get it. I did not understand what it did. Magic seems to provide some basic gui elements that seemed like a quick way to build a website. I'll have another look at QM though.

QM runs on Cheyenne?

15-Jan-09 2:44
1562KajDid you consider QuarterMaster instead? I used to want to go with Magic!, but QM is a much more modern design14-Jan-09 16:33
1561amacleodI'll try those suggestions. It's a bit more methodical than what I was doing... Thanks, Dide.14-Jan-09 16:14
1560DideC<html><head>Test Magic</head> <body> Magic fonctionne t'il ?<P/> <REBOL> print [ "<b>Oui il fonctionne !</b><BR>Date et heure du serveur : <i>" now </i> <P/> "Configuration actuelle :<BR>" "m-library-path : " m-library-path <BR> "m-session-path : " m-sessions-path <BR> "curdir : " curdir <BR> "home : " system/options/home <BR> ] </REBOL> </body> </html>14-Jan-09 11:56
1559DideCThen I have a file test.rhtml (handler for .rhtml must be configured in the webserver) with this content to test magic :14-Jan-09 11:56
1558DideCThen, when this script runs well, put the same sheeband at the beginning of the magic.cgi file.14-Jan-09 11:35
1557DideC#!/usr/bin/rebol -cs rebol []

print "Content-type: text/html^/" print { <<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2 Final//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD><TITLE>Rebol CGI test page</TITLE></HEAD> <BODY>}

print ["Server date time is:" now]

print {</BODY></HTML>}

14-Jan-09 11:34
1556DideCDid you manage to make rebol cgi works? I mean, is the webserver able to run .cgi script with rebol? Rebol/core need to be installed on the server, chmoded and you must have put the right sheeband at the beginning of the .cgi script.

A simple .cgi script like this one is a good test :

14-Jan-09 11:34
1555amacleodThanks, I've tried about 4 times over the last few years and keep giving up. The config files keep screwing me. tried under XP, 98, using WAMP and under Ubuntu...14-Jan-09 5:01
1554Steeveyou can ask on french BBS (even in english) Several users use Magic14-Jan-09 4:26
1553amacleodAlso, Is there any advantage to it over RSP?14-Jan-09 4:18
1552amacleodAnyone have experience using Oliverier Auverlot's Magic! I have tried several times to get it up and running but never got there...14-Jan-09 4:17
1551Oldesnot escaping html tags is quite serious bug.13-Jan-09 20:08
1550ReichartPlease post the Table bug bug to Feedback, thanks.13-Jan-09 19:31
1549Reichart:)13-Jan-09 19:31 Opera 9.63 fixed the problem. Now it works perfectly. My guess is that the was revalidated by the new install process, so the site allowed a connection. Dunno, just a guess. A couple days of trying to fix my code went into that unsure lesson.13-Jan-09 17:39
1547eFishAntThe message about tables in here at 31-Jan-2005 2:42:06 AM wrecks the AltME tables when it sends its output the the Web Browser. I have seen this before. (press the Print icon in AltME and look at this message group in the browser, table lines are missing)13-Jan-09 12:36
1546eFishAnt...and at a qualitative level, I think this might be used as a referer...Opera does this from the Home Page button. I don't get it from other browsers.13-Jan-09 12:06
1545eFishAntI asked a broad question because I didn't know what answer I need ... ;-)

Specifically, this comes out of Opera and when I parse it to HTTP, I don't know if I should make a Request of:

Host: Path: / Target: ?

or some other way, like perhaps Path: none ? and Target: /?

13-Jan-09 12:02
1544PeterWoodThough I'm not sure:

>> to string! debase/base "SDbXzuPvK4tsiGnHOia5dA==" 64 == "H6????+?l?i?:&?t"

13-Jan-09 2:43
1543PeterWoodThe == looks like padding on encoded data to me.13-Jan-09 2:38
1542Maximis it the last "==" which is confusing? or the encoded data?12-Jan-09 23:31
1541ReichartSteve, could you be a little more specific. There are a lot ways to parse your parse question :)

For example, are you asking what the "?" and the "&" mean in the URL? Or am I taking too literal?

12-Jan-09 22:26
1540eFishAntAnyone know what the proper way to parse this style of URL is? Opera spits it out.

12-Jan-09 22:15
1539AntonYes, that makes sense. I think HTTP/1.0 servers are likely to not bother sending Accept-Ranges (thus it remains #[none]), while HTTP/1.1 servers are likely to send it (thus set to either "none" or "bytes").12-Jan-09 15:14
1538Gabriele#[none] means that the header was not there. if it's there, then it's going to be a string.12-Jan-09 8:44
1537AntonOnly two hosts returned #[none]: and the rest returned strings of lengths, eg: "4279194". I should test more urls to feel more certain. (Or read http specs... hmm.. which gives better results ?)11-Jan-09 13:41
1536Antonforeach url [ ][ port: open/binary/direct url print [mold port/locals/headers/Content-Length url] close port ]11-Jan-09 13:37
1535AntonWell I shouldn't be so lazy. Let me start collecting empirical data ...11-Jan-09 13:37
1534AntonI can definitely see: none? port/locals/headers/Accept-Ranges but is it ever true: "none" = port/locals/headers/Accept-Ranges ?11-Jan-09 13:34
1533Alan.14-Sep-08 7:05
1532RobertAh, ok, that was why I don't like it that much.11-Aug-08 12:52
1531SunandaGoogle Analytics requires you to add a few lines of Javascript to every page that you want GA to track. That limits the GA stats to user-agents that execute javascript.8-Aug-08 9:43
1530RobertTomc, AWStats is what I currently try to setup.8-Aug-08 7:12
1529RobertYeksoon, yes, web traffic. I heard about Googly Analytics but thought you need to add special stuff. Isn't this the case?8-Aug-08 7:12
1528RobertWill, thx, never heard about this one.8-Aug-08 7:11
1527Tomcbut it also has it's shortfalls. one of my coworkers was experimenting with a timing plugin this spring7-Aug-08 16:42
1526TomcHi Robert I switched from analog to awstats about 4 years ago and am still with it.7-Aug-08 16:41

what kind of logs are u looking at?

if it is for web traffic stuffs, have you look at Google Analytics?

If it is not, just ignore my comments.

7-Aug-08 6:58
1524Willthis one is pretty complete, not free but you can get a new trial key every 30 days 21:51
1523RobertOh, and it should run on the web-server.6-Aug-08 15:57
1522RobertI'm searching for a good free log-file analyzer (whatever that means ;-)). Any hints? I know:

- Analog - Webializer

But both are not that good IMO.

6-Aug-08 15:56
1521Chris -- Google host Javascript libraries.29-May-08 3:32
1520PekrI think I will try CGI and parse ... hopefully I will not break some license, albeit I fear that I will be :-)27-May-08 20:22
1519ChrisTheir replacement appears to be an Ajax widget. I'm not sure how well that would integrate...27-May-08 14:17
1518SunandaThere was a Google search API (using SOAP), but they withdrew it. This page may lead to alternatives: 14:02
1517ChrisFor customisation, Yahoo have better Apis.27-May-08 13:51
1516ChrisI think you are looking for the API.27-May-08 13:06
1515PekrMy friend who is building some basic websites was asked by his client for the search facility. So far he used Google and its: feature, but the client would like the output to be customised. So here goes the questions:

- does google licence allow customising such output? E.g. wrapping it in another color, etc., so that it would look like the rest of the client site? - is it easily technically possible, to parse the result? I mean - I can imagine parsing the output, even page paginator, then generating custom output. But maybe there is some other solution for that? Maybe some google api?

27-May-08 11:31
1514Will 19:46
1513PeterWoodDoesn't work with Firefox though3-May-08 14:33
1512PeterWood>> stringURL: copy "" == "" >> call/output "osascript" stringURL == 0 >> theURL: to url! stringURL == >> theURL == 14:29
1511PeterWood>> stringURL: copy "" == "" >> call/output "osascript" stringURL == 0 >> theURL: to url! stringURL == >> theURL == 14:27
1510Willthis is part of a script I use to monitor and restart my vpn and ssh tunnel : connect: does [ call rejoin [{osascript -e "tell application \"System Events\" tell current location of network preferences set vpn to current configuration of service \"VPN\" if not connected of vpn then tell application \"AlmostVPNProMenuBar\" stop (profile named \"default\") end tell connect vpn delay 6 tell application \"AlmostVPNProMenuBar\" start (profile named \"default\") end tell else tell application \"AlmostVPNProMenuBar\" stop (profile named \"default\") end tell disconnect vpn delay 6 connect vpn delay 6 tell application \"AlmostVPNProMenuBar\" start (profile named \"default\") end tell end if end tell end tell"}] ]3-May-08 14:18
1509PeterWoodRobert: You can run any AppleScript from the command line: osacript script_name3-May-08 14:14
1508RobertWill, cool. Thanks. Can such a script be started from Rebol?3-May-08 8:21
1507RobertBrock, yes dynamic content is hard to track and it depends if it makes sense to track.3-May-08 8:20
1506Willhere is a more complete example that will save url of all browser windows to a file: 22:32
1505Willtell application "Safari" set theURL to URL of the document of front window end tell2-May-08 22:31
1504WillRobert, on os x you can do it easly with AppleScript (use ScriptEditor):2-May-08 22:31
1503BrockI don't think the method Doc provided will work for dynamically generated pages. For dynamic content you will need to use something like checksum However, you will need to maintain a list of the last time a page was checked.2-May-08 22:29
1502BrockRobert, are the pages you are accessing static, dynamic or a combination of the two?2-May-08 22:25
1501?Would be nice to do something like this flash app with REBOL 18:45
1500RobertHmm... sounds like a lot of work but OK I will see how I come along.2-May-08 15:56
1499GreggYou might have to do some window spying to see what classes things are, then enum top windows to find the browser, then enum its child windows and do getwindowtext.2-May-08 15:51
1498RobertAt the moment yes.2-May-08 15:43
1497Henrikis it Windows only?2-May-08 14:58
1496RobertYes, I know. So any help/idea will help.2-May-08 14:57
1495HenrikThat might be hard as it would depend on the browser.2-May-08 14:41
1494RobertDoes anybody know how I can access the currently displayed URL in a web-browser from an external application? I just want to get back the URL of the "current" shown web-page in an active window.2-May-08 14:32
1493RobertCool! I could have assumed this...2-May-08 14:31
1492Dockimbel>> modified? connecting to: == 30-Apr-2008/1:082-May-08 14:14
1491DockimbelThere's a mezz wrapper for that :2-May-08 14:14
1490RobertDoc, thanks. Never heard about this...2-May-08 14:09
1489Dockimbel>> load skip page/locals/headers/Last-Modified 5 == 30-Apr-2008/1:082-May-08 14:09
1488Dockimbel>> page: open >> page/locals/headers/Last-Modified == "Wed, 30/Apr/2008/01:08:00/+GMT"2-May-08 14:07
1487HenrikGeomol, I wonder if it has something to do with the skill with using the computer, how fast something can be looked up, et.c2-May-08 13:47
1486RobertWhat do I need to read from a given URL (assume web-page) to find out when the page was modified? Is there a way?2-May-08 13:27
1485BrianHAnswer: No. Now you don't have tgo bring it up in the other group.30-Apr-08 1:12
1484?sorry wrong group29-Apr-08 22:42
1483?Is evolution a religion 22:41
1482btiffinRe age differences; Typing speed? More detail oriented than the flash me this tlash me that generation? Umm, retired with more free time? But an interesting stat. I wonder if they thought about adding a developer category ... 29 hours a day. Reichart alone would probably skew the statistics. :)29-Apr-08 19:42
1481GeomolInfo from danish news on tv: Women use 29 hours on the internet per week. Men use 27 hours on the internet per week. People older than 61 years use more time on the internet than people between 20 and 60 years old.29-Apr-08 19:26
1480GreggI got a note from Doug that he's confident comments won't be coming back, so I'm going to do another update for that.22-Apr-08 15:31
1479WillThank you Gregg 8)22-Apr-08 12:43
1478GreggIt's up on, and I sent it to Doug Crockford as well.21-Apr-08 1:39
1477GreggSorry for the delay in getting the JSON script updated Will. There were some other changes in the spec that I decided to clean up, so it passes all their tests, except one. Test #18 checks the depth limit on arrays. I guess they can't be deeper than 19 levels. Our REBOL version doesn't enforce that.21-Apr-08 1:38
1476ReichartLOL...yeah...18-Apr-08 2:43
1475PekrWeb apps are becoming sophisticated. We are about to introduce WCMS in our company, probably basing it upon SharePoint Server. But I can see that also many open-source systems exist, as Joomla, Drupal, Xoop, WordPress, etc., and here's how you can customise your google site - - you simply choose portlets and you can shift thema around ....17-Apr-08 8:32
1474TomcI perfer my rebol not look like regex16-Apr-08 19:29
1473GreggIt just makes paths look so horrible. :-)

Does anyone else here care?

16-Apr-08 1:01
1472WillGregg, thanks for digging this deeply, I would suggest just adding it, no refinements, at the end it is a transport not meant to be human readable (unicode escapes aren't more readable ;) so no need to think if refinement is needed case by case.15-Apr-08 22:40
1471ReichartGab, : )15-Apr-08 17:37
1470GreggWill, Here is the answer from Douglas Crockford:

"It is optional. It is allowed for the case where JSON is embedded in HTML SCRIPT, where "</" is not allowed, but "<\/" is.

There are no comments in JSON."

So, on the parsing side, we should look for it, but on the generation side, \/ is really ugly if we generate it everywhere. If we don't generate it, you're stuck if you need it, so we probably need a refinement. Either that, or just accept the ugliness.

I'm not sure if I want to remove comment support either. Just a gut feeling they may come back.

15-Apr-08 14:00
1469Gabrielereichart, "fighting" is not the right word... i'd say, it's just me continuously whining about thing not being this way :)15-Apr-08 8:51
1468Pekrmaybe it is just hidden, using cookies? If you have cookie, you are auto-logged-on, and the session will end when you close your browser session?15-Apr-08 8:10
1467AntonI've noticed some websites like Amazon don't seem to have a log out / sign out button any more. What's happening ? How are they doing the logout ?15-Apr-08 6:10
1466GreggI'm checking with Douglas Crockford about what the real rules are. None of the examples have the solidus escaped, even though that's what the grammar says to do. Once I have answers from him, I'll post an update.15-Apr-08 3:22
1465WillThank you!15-Apr-08 0:56
1464GreggI'll get it updated shortly.15-Apr-08 0:56
1463Willwould be nice if you can take control and update on to prevent others headaces 8)15-Apr-08 0:47
1462GreggThat is, JSON no longer supports comments.15-Apr-08 0:47
1461GreggYeah, I see the solidus in the spec, though I wonder how it was overlooked before. It looks like they've also done away with comments in the spec. Is that so?15-Apr-08 0:46
1460Willreturn error without the patch15-Apr-08 0:44
1459Willhere you go: probe JSON-to-rebol head clear back tail copy find/tail read "jsonFlickrApi("15-Apr-08 0:44
1458GreggHa! I thought it said "Panorama V", not "Panorama \/". :-\15-Apr-08 0:39
1457Willwithout the patch it won't work once it encounter "\/" do you really need a link?14-Apr-08 21:52
1456Willexample is in the patch above, flikr api returns: {"name":"Taiwan Panorama \/ \u53f0\u7063\u5bec\u8996\u91ce"}14-Apr-08 21:51
1455ReichartWe are not fighting...fighting would mean I don't agree with you...14-Apr-08 21:15
1454GreggShould > be in the list of escaped chars? It doesn't look like it from the spec. I'll have to check my notes to see if that was added for a specific reason.14-Apr-08 16:44
1453GreggDo you have a test case for the change?14-Apr-08 16:34
1452GreggWill, I'll updated my JSON copy script here with your changes, but Romano hasn't been around in a long time, AFAIK, so someone (I guess maybe you or me) should get joint ownership of the script on to update it.14-Apr-08 16:32
1451Gabrieleif we don't expect to emulate View 100%, but rather we do a Web VID, i think this can definitely be done in JS, with the server only to access data.14-Apr-08 9:06
1450GabrieleBrian, no, Qtask hasn't, and that's what i've always been fighitng with Reichart about :)14-Apr-08 9:03
1449Willlivequery, how cool 8) 17:18
1448WillIf we are going to use a JS framework, I insist in using jQuery, the core is really mature,fast and stable, it has the syntax that more resemble the way we think in rebol. 17:12
1447DockimbelDoing the VID2( or 3) interfacing is the easiest part ;-)13-Apr-08 17:02
1446Pekrthen Gabriele is good target to consider, he might have some ideas, as he knows best what VID3 is going to be about. Imo we should skip VID2 ...13-Apr-08 17:00
1445DockimbelSo yes, to make the browser another potential "target" for View apps.13-Apr-08 16:58
1444DockimbelThe goal would be to use VID/REBOL to build web applications without typing any HTML or JS.13-Apr-08 16:57
1443Pekrbut what is the idea? to have one rebol view app with VID or browser UI?13-Apr-08 16:54
1442DockimbelSo maybe the solution would be to handle those events that need fast response like typing text in a field, or mouse-over gfx effects, on the client-side and send others to the server.13-Apr-08 16:53
1441DockimbelView-like engine in JS : that looks very doable, but I'm afraid the result might be too slow. I've worked some time with a rendering engine built in JS, and it was just a little slower than native UI, but not very scalable (performances dropping rapidly with a growing number of "faces"). It was BackBase : 16:45
1440DockimbelBrian: true, network latency might be a show-stopper for such kind of apps over the internet.13-Apr-08 16:39
1439BrianHJavaScript doesn't have access to Cairo directly in any browser. JavaScript is not anywhere near as fast as Java yet.13-Apr-08 16:28
1438PekrIIRC, when Cyphre did some game for Java enabled cell phone, he created small engine emulating faces13-Apr-08 16:26
1437BrianHWith the DOM for regular UI elements, and Canvas for Draw once it is implemented more widely. The browser is a little weak right now, but that is improving, finally.13-Apr-08 16:26
1436Pekrbut I think that view-like engine could be built13-Apr-08 16:25
1435Pekrbut it is the possibility. Brian - I am not sure Sun's desktop was slow because of communication with server - dragging of stuff around the screen was slow. So I just wonder, if JS generated UI can be as fast as View (which is still not optimised)13-Apr-08 16:25
1434Pekryes, with Cairo crap instead of AGG, right? :-)13-Apr-08 16:24
1433BrianHOn the other hand, you could build a View-like rendering engine in JavaScript itself.13-Apr-08 16:23
1432BrianHIt's not JS that would be the slowdown - it's the network connection to the server.13-Apr-08 16:22
1431BrianHKeyboard and mouse events happen too quickly, and people expect them to be handled quickly.13-Apr-08 16:21
1430Pekras for JS, I am not sure it is fast enough. I saw Sun's JS based desktop, and it was joke compared to even VID 1 alpha speed probably :-)13-Apr-08 16:20
1429BrianHWait, no. That approach would fall over when you run into network latency issues. It would work great on a LAN, but not over the internet.13-Apr-08 16:20
1428PekrDoc - maybe you could communicate it with Gabriele. IIRc VID3 is flexible to generate various outputs. Look model is separated, but it would be better to ask Gabriele.13-Apr-08 16:19
1427BrianHQtask has, I think.13-Apr-08 16:18
1426DockimbelDid anyone already tried such approach ?13-Apr-08 16:07
1425DockimbelThe events system would be splitted in two parts :

1) A small part in JS on client-side catching keyboards and mouse-events and sending them asynchronously to the server.

2) A server-side part emulating the View event propagation engine through the face objects hierarchy.

13-Apr-08 16:05
1424DockimbelThere's an approach that I'd like to experiment regarding web UI generation. The idea would be to consider the web page as a View target and build a View-like rendering engine able to process face objets and renders them as HTML. So it would be possible to generate HTML UI with VID directly. The DIV tag would be a good candidate to emulate a View face.13-Apr-08 16:02
1423Willwould be nice if the maintainer could update the version 8)13-Apr-08 11:36
1422WillHello, about JSON.r, the one on is old, here is the latest

but working with the flickr api I found hopefully a bug, here is the patch:

--- +++ (clipboard) @@ -188,7 +188,7 @@ ] ex-chars: charset {\"} chars: complement ex-chars - escaped: charset {"\>bfnrt} + escaped: charset {"\>bfnrt/} ;!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!added "/" otherwise this returned from flikr! give error {{"name":"Taiwan Panorama \/ \u53f0\u7063\u5bec\u8996\u91ce"}} escape-table: [ {\"} "^"" {\\} "\" @@ -198,6 +198,7 @@ {\r} "^M" {\n} "^/" {\t} "^-" + {\/} "/" ;!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!see above ] digits: charset "0123456789" hex-c: union digits charset "ABCDEFabcdef"

13-Apr-08 11:34
1421PeterWoodIs anybody successfully running Rebol CGI scripts with Apache on an Intel Mac?11-Mar-08 1:43
1420Anton(But hmm... maybe I wanted the base tag for something... I'll have to check.)4-Mar-08 12:00
1419AntonAha ! Tracked it down. In my frame I had a BASE tag. This caused the javascript error:

Error: document.getElementById("navList") has no properties Source File: javascript:alert('width: ' + document.getElementById('navList').offsetWidth);

<html> <head>

<base target="_top" />

</head> <body>

<ul id="navList" > <li>Hello</li> </ul>

<a href="javascript:alert('width: ' + document.getElementById('navList').offsetWidth);">navList width</a>

</body> </html>

4-Mar-08 1:56
1418AntonNot so simple... it doesn't work in a frame for some reason.4-Mar-08 1:32
1417AntonSeems simple, in retrospect.4-Mar-08 1:23
1416AntonHooray! found the answer <a href="javascript:alert('width: ' + document.getElementById('navList').offsetWidth);">navList width</a>4-Mar-08 1:22
1415AntonHere's another question that I wish I didn't have to ask. This doesn't work. I can't find how to reference navList even though it's in the same page. What is the way to reference navList correctly ?

<html> <body>

<ul id="navList" > <li>Hello</li> </ul>

<a href="javascript:alert('width: ' +;">navList width</a>

</body> </html>

3-Mar-08 17:01
1414AntonThanks, WIll. A very nice suggestion. I will wait until my optimism/web-technology faith returns :)13-Jan-08 13:33
1413Willload the jquery library into your site and make your life much easier, it makes manipulating DOM a kid game 8) maybe look also for the accordion or tree plugin for your menu11-Jan-08 12:07
1412AntonYes, I know it's better to avoid frames, but the site is already using frames, I am just modifying the navigation (or so I think).10-Jan-08 14:44
1411Oldesuse DIVs instead of frames10-Jan-08 11:06
1410Antonwhat a heap of crap10-Jan-08 9:33
1409Antonomg - I am starting to think it can't actually be done. 9:31
1408AntonFrustration: The DOM inspector says the frame has a property "contentDocument" but I can't seem to get at it.10-Jan-08 9:04
1407AntonI found that appendChild(elem) should do the move. But still difficulty navigating the DOM tree to get to the right place where it can be inserted. eg. top.frame2.appendChild(elem) is not working.10-Jan-08 7:46
1406AntonBy the way, I didn't play much with the DOM until recently.10-Jan-08 5:01
1405AntonAny DOM experts here ? I have a frameset with two frames, and in the first frame there is a menu implemented with <ul>. I am wondering if I can move the <ul> menu out of the frame into the top level document. (The frame exists only for the menu, so I should be able to size it to zero so that it does not obscure the top-level doc.) This would mean I could keep the website frameset-oriented without doing the work of converting it to single pages. And frames allow pure HTML to include code efficiently. I found document.body.removeChild(elem), but I get lost when I try to identify the new location and createElement. Can anybody help with that ?10-Jan-08 5:00
1404ChrisHmm, I thought that the author format was supposed to be "Author <email>" but appears to be "email (Author)" -- did this change at some point? (have to say, prefer Atom myself...)19-Nov-07 16:34
1403ChrisAuthor should be ["author" email] -- this is due to the email requirement in the RSS specs (you can nix it easily in emit-rss code).19-Nov-07 16:16
1402DanielSzBut new-blog.r (Carl's blog srirpt ) requires emit-rss.r, relegating the previous one to oblivion. Talking about "archebology "...9-Nov-07 20:43

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