REBOL3 - DevCon2005 (DevCon 2005 [web-public])

Return to Index Page
Most recent messages (300 max) are listed first.

2610PeterWooddot11-Apr-06 9:47
2609Gabriele:-)16-Mar-06 23:25
2608james_nakG, we created a new group in your honor.16-Mar-06 23:17
2607Gabrieleif it's maui, i'll make sure to be there a week earlier and take a vacation ;) i don't think i'd have many more occasions to go to vacation to Maui hehe :)16-Mar-06 23:14
2606JaimeVargasWe could annouce the conference in the NOVALUG the local unix user group.16-Mar-06 18:15
2605JaimeVargasThere are a couple of good groups here. You have the telcos, the new comms companies, the aerospace and all the security firms.16-Mar-06 18:14
2604JaimeVargasThe advocacy for DC is more on the ground of atracting local programmers.16-Mar-06 18:14
2603?Yeah...Maui. The best place on earth.16-Mar-06 18:12
2602JaimeVargasFall is really nice in DC. Not very cold and a beautiful display of nature colors. But I bet the island of Maui will be 10 times more beautiful.16-Mar-06 18:10
2601james_nakR, you are referrring to Maui?16-Mar-06 18:07
2600james_nakCool = Neato ?16-Mar-06 18:07
2599?The ocean is like bath water.16-Mar-06 18:06
2598?Cold?!?16-Mar-06 18:06
2597james_nakJaime, by setting up conferences perhaps. Also we could see your equipment as well.16-Mar-06 18:04
2596JaimeVargasWhat it will be good about DC is that we can promote Rebol to the Goverment Agencies here, and all the Universities.16-Mar-06 17:42
2595JaimeVargasJames, yes I am in DC.16-Mar-06 17:41
2594Gabrieletime to make a devcon2006 group?16-Mar-06 9:44
2593GabrieleLol, bot Maui and Australia seem very cool to me ;)16-Mar-06 9:43
2592AshleyNaru? I hear there is some cheap accommodation going there.16-Mar-06 2:56
2591GrahamGold Coast of Australia is nice :)16-Mar-06 2:37
2590james_nakFishguy, you'll be near the water either way.15-Mar-06 22:18
2589eFishAntMaui works for me, but I prefer Brisbane...;-)15-Mar-06 22:17
2588AllenMaui15-Mar-06 22:03
2587james_nakDo we have a winner?15-Mar-06 21:50
2586Geomol:-)15-Mar-06 21:49
2585?Maui15-Mar-06 21:49
2584james_nakJaime, you're in DC, right?15-Mar-06 17:30
2583Maximnot sure I'd wear a REBOL t-shirt while visiting the capitol hill. hehe specially since the O looks a bit like a target ;-)15-Mar-06 17:03
2582eFishAntI like the idea of a group of REBOLs going to Washington DC.15-Mar-06 17:00
2581james_nakdevcon: crush/all pick grapes 200615-Mar-06 16:36
2580james_nakSounds like California close to the Sassenranch would be best for our fearless leader. Anyone handy at picking grapes and crushing?15-Mar-06 16:34
2579Maximand who knows, maybe some of the french might be inclined to come too , hehe ;-)15-Mar-06 16:01
2578Maximmany people I've talked to during the devcon 2005 (and since) had liked the idea.15-Mar-06 16:00
2577MaximMontreal ! (Canada) during the International Jazz Fest (summer) I think there are already people wanting/willing to organize it .15-Mar-06 15:59
2576JaimeVargasHow about Washington, DC?15-Mar-06 15:20
2575eFishAntSome cool US cities, Savannah, Georgia, Fort Lauterdale, Florida, San Francisco, California, Sedona, Arizona (gives a chance to see Grand Canyon for international people) (there are others...) any feel for desired location? (I am glad to help with coordination either lead or behind the scenes if someone else steps up to volunteer.)15-Mar-06 13:08
2574DideCFrench Spring Day seems to be dead before having lived. There were some good ideas, but no such good implication to do it AFAIK.15-Mar-06 12:53
2573CindyI would like to suggest another US location for next fall or postponing it to spring 2007. One requirement is a coordinator to find a reasonable place to hold the conference.14-Mar-06 22:01
2572CindyThe French have their own REBOL Day in the spring, it may be this month sometime.14-Mar-06 21:57
2571CindyThe problem with the Dev Con timing is that we have grapes to pick and crush. They were unusually late last fall and we probably picked them earlier than we would have liked. About 10 -12 days after picking, you have to press the wine.14-Mar-06 21:57
2570CindyWow, and Carl thinks I plan ahead!14-Mar-06 21:55
2569AllenI've done some intial venue investigation for Brisbane in 2007 or 200814-Mar-06 21:55
2568AllenI thought the French Rebols had lobbied for the next one.14-Mar-06 21:52
2567james_nakHistorically we've had the eFish (Davis) and then Gabriel (Italy), I've heard some talk of Prague. I just throw that out to see if someone comes up with a place.14-Mar-06 21:27
2566PekrParis and Amsterodam were considered here IIRC ....14-Mar-06 16:24
2565GeomolTalked about Paris, but I'm not sure, if it was definitive.14-Mar-06 16:21
2564Alanwhy y'all :)14-Mar-06 6:30
2563?Who is "you?"14-Mar-06 4:52
2562james_nakDid you all decide where the next Devcon will be?13-Mar-06 22:02
2561?As Graham pointed out, I simply was going to use Zip as a quick way to package everything. Since I was going to break stuff down into directories.20-Oct-05 20:45
2560Gabrielepetr, that's not the problem at all :P20-Oct-05 11:00
2559Pekrgabriele - to get data from .zip, use zip:// scheme .... ah, we don't have any, sorry :-)20-Oct-05 10:54
2558Gabrielebut... i guess that wouldn't be hard, so it's no problem anyway.20-Oct-05 10:44
2557Gabrielewhat i mean is that it won't be any easier/faster than using the script (which will save me figuring out how to make the thumbs from the zip file ;)20-Oct-05 10:44
2556GrahamEven though the individual items are already compressed.20-Oct-05 10:36
2555GrahamHowever, it is commonly used as a way to pack things into one archive.20-Oct-05 10:36
2554Pekr:-) surely not, I would say the archive will be even bigger :-)20-Oct-05 10:31
2553Gabrielezip is not going to make jpgs smaller ;)20-Oct-05 10:25
2552?I have a LOT of pictures. So will prob send you a zip.19-Oct-05 17:10
2551Gabrieleotherwise, zip or tar are ok for me (but i need to generate the thumbs manually)19-Oct-05 9:28
2550Gabrielewith the upload script, just select all the images, and it will take care of uploading them.19-Oct-05 9:27
2549?Do I need to upload it as a tar.gz?18-Oct-05 23:48
2548Gabriele(if you upload yours with the upload script on that page, we get the thumbnails automatically too.)18-Oct-05 22:57
2547Gabriele (506MB)18-Oct-05 22:53
2546Gabrielesure, let me build it for you.18-Oct-05 22:48
2545?OK. Yes, I am still working on my own, and yes, I will upload a Zip for you soon. Can I get a zip of yours?18-Oct-05 22:40
2544Gabrielereichart: i don't think you did. you said you were working on your own website for them, or something like that.18-Oct-05 22:37
2543?Is there a way to get all the pictures as a Zip? And did I ever upload all my pics form the conf? I have been so busy I don't remember.18-Oct-05 22:18
2542?Yes, Swiss...18-Oct-05 22:17
2541GreggWIll is Swiss I think.18-Oct-05 15:54
2540eFishAntaha! Cool!18-Oct-05 15:44
2539JaimeVargasDideC18-Oct-05 15:43
2538eFishAntWho was the guy with the Login magazines?18-Oct-05 15:35
2537JaimeVargasI will let him disclose more if he desires.18-Oct-05 15:22
2536JaimeVargasWill is his alias name, not his real life name.18-Oct-05 15:22
2535eFishAntIt is Will Arp I was wondering about. Is he German?18-Oct-05 15:16
2534eFishAntand do you have the picture of Nick? (good way to introduce me to their faces...:-)18-Oct-05 15:16
2533Gabrielethis is Will Arp: 10:20
2532Gabrielethe one on the right here is Romano: 10:20
2531Gabrieleyou can see him in this photo: (foreground, Victor Pavlov; background, Paolo Marciante)18-Oct-05 10:19
2530Gabrielewait, there was a real Alitalia pilot; the first day he arrived directly from the airport with his uniform. his name is Paolo Marciante.18-Oct-05 10:16
2529DideCSteve, I think the "plane pilot hat guy" is Will Arp ;-)18-Oct-05 8:30
2528eFishAntOK, watched all the presentations...WOW18-Oct-05 4:31
2527Benjamindefine village person :-)18-Oct-05 1:53
2526Tomcvillage person18-Oct-05 1:02
2525eFishAntlike who was the person with the plane pilot's hat on?18-Oct-05 1:01
2524eFishAntSo how can we find the names of the unknown REBOLers at the conference? There are faces in the crowd I have no idea of...18-Oct-05 0:52
2523AllenLuckily I can still get Dubble Zout drop at my local shops. :-) I've got dutch relatives arriving next month, and should be able to stock up on some chocolate, drop and stophoest :-)17-Oct-05 23:44
2522KajI loved those when I was young17-Oct-05 18:58
2521Tomcwont touth that ... but I have found a local (but expensive) source for Wyberts which I eat like candy17-Oct-05 18:54
2520james_nakLadislav, Let it Be!17-Oct-05 18:54
2519james_nakKaj, we have a supplier here in Southern California.17-Oct-05 18:53
2518LadislavJames: then I must warn you: I have got many more Elan CDs than just that one17-Oct-05 18:52
2517KajDoes your Dubbel Zoute Drop run out in two years? :-)17-Oct-05 18:51
2516Tomcbut here most all her life, we to visit every few years. about due for another visit17-Oct-05 18:49
2515KajCool17-Oct-05 18:48
2514TomcDen Hagg17-Oct-05 18:48
2513KajWhy, is she Dutch?17-Oct-05 18:48
2512Tomcso she could go also17-Oct-05 18:48
2511Tomcwould be hard to stop my wife from forcing me go to a devcon in the netherlands17-Oct-05 18:47
2510james_nakI work with a guy who is from the Czech Republic and his brother and friends built my house. They constantly played the "megaconcert" CD. And I mean constantly...: ^)17-Oct-05 18:47
2509Ladislavwhat do you know about Elan?17-Oct-05 18:45
2508james_nakAnd maybe an Elan concert?17-Oct-05 18:45
2507KajIt sure was :-)17-Oct-05 18:43
2506PekrNetherlands is ok - my most favourite bands - The Gathering, Within Temptation are from Netherlands, so it would be ok to me :-)17-Oct-05 18:43
2505Ladislavit was nice to meet you there17-Oct-05 18:43
2504Ladislav:-)17-Oct-05 18:41
2503KajFirst you will have to attend the DevCon. There were four people from the Netherlands and two from Belgium, and then I found out that Reichart is half Dutch :-)17-Oct-05 18:40
2502Pekrbesides that, CZ will become next big REBOL country after France, that is for sure :-)17-Oct-05 18:15
2501PekrIs there anything wrong with Prague? OK, lot's of contacts in Prague, I may try to arrange some lucrative small hotel and we could arrange trip to Prague ....17-Oct-05 18:14
2500JaimeVargasI vote alsoe for Czech. It is also more affordable. Specially if hosted outside of Prague.17-Oct-05 17:39
2499RebolekJamie: That Moldavia is Moravia actually. The biggest difference is that Moldavia has access to sea and we don't ;)17-Oct-05 17:00
2498?We should put it to a vote. I vote in Czech, although does not need to be Prague.17-Oct-05 16:37
2497Ladislav...and we didn't manage to show you the Czech Paradise, Jizera Mountains, Jested view, ...17-Oct-05 12:32
2496JaimeVargasCzech Republic is quite beautiful from history Praha, to Industrious Liberec (Bohemia), too beautiful country in Krazenko (Moldavia). I certainly enjoyed my short visit there.17-Oct-05 12:29
2495JaimeVargasAnd as drink ;-)17-Oct-05 12:28
2494PekrAnd Jaime would surely prefer CZ, as we have the best beer here and Jaime likes Beer! (at least as a product/framework) :-)17-Oct-05 12:26
2493PekrPrague is nice/historical town too :-)17-Oct-05 12:25
2492Pekrok, France sounds good - there is rather active community there, although this year, there was only one person from France, no?17-Oct-05 12:25
2491JaimeVargasYep. It seems it will be Paris, but maybe the Czech's can compete for it ;-)17-Oct-05 12:25
2490GeomolYes, there was some talk about Paris for next year DevCon.17-Oct-05 12:24
2489Henrikwasn't Paris mentioned?17-Oct-05 12:24
2488Pekrbtw - looking at Carl slides, there was a question of where to do Devcon next year? Were there any tips? Or will it be Czech Republic? :-)17-Oct-05 12:23
2487Maartenmonie=movie17-Oct-05 12:16
2486MaartenBut thanks, you just lost one REBOL to the monie business :-)17-Oct-05 12:15
2485MaartenAnd almost as bald ;-)17-Oct-05 12:15
2484eFishAntI think Maarten sounds like Sean Connery...watching his talk from Devcon17-Oct-05 11:25
2483Gabrielenote that ffmpeg's mpeg4 is playable by divx and vice versa17-Oct-05 10:39
2482Gabrieleyes, xvid and divx are a variation on the MPEG4 standard (created when MPEG4 was not yet approved as a standard IIRC)17-Oct-05 10:37
2481Joedivx is actually an implementation of MP416-Oct-05 17:36
2480JoePekr, for the MP4 CD I got to fit about 7 hours of NerdTV. I don't think transcoding would change the size much . I think divx/xvid is similar compression16-Oct-05 17:35
2479JoeYes, I thought about using transcode in linux. It's a shame all the variations don't make MP4 use as smooth as it could be. e.g. on Linux Fedora4 I could only get audio+video for your experimental encoding (trips to rome .. BTW, what is the band playing the background music ?) . For the other files I could only get video but no audio so I had to check it in windows XP SP1 (where latest quicktime and media player wouldn't play them (quicktime said incompatible profile) but an old VLC release played them fine)16-Oct-05 17:34
2478Pekrwhat would be their size if would be encoded using divx or xvid? Even the cheapest DVD players do support such codecs ....16-Oct-05 17:31
2477Gabrieleyou could reencode them to fit your player.16-Oct-05 17:30
2476JoeIt's a shame I can not watch the videos with my DVD player. I just bought a cheap (40 euro) dvd player that plays zones 1/2 and MP4. I've copied the NerdTV MP4 interviews (see links) and have enjoyed quite a lot watching that on TV rather than the monitor ... but the devcon videos don't play (probably because of the MP4 profile and the audio not being MP3/WMA)16-Oct-05 17:27
2475JoeGabriele, Thanks for providing all the Devcon videos (that really helps improve the remote attendance!)16-Oct-05 17:24
2474LouisGabriele, oh. Makes a difference!16-Oct-05 16:13
2473GabrieleMP3 = audio; MP4 = video.16-Oct-05 10:22
2472Allen(wierd, could have sworn I posted above to "Tech News", not "devcon2005")16-Oct-05 0:15
2471LouisWhat is better for video podcasting, MP3 or MP4?16-Oct-05 0:05
2470LouisI would like to learn from you men's experience. What is the best path to getting started in video podcasting?15-Oct-05 23:58
2469AllenBusiness Ideas grants closing soon. (Australians only). 20:57
2468eFishAnt7. make-doc where you type text in that simple dialect and produce typeset quality results. 8. show where you type text in that simple dialect and produce professional quality presentations.14-Oct-05 10:31
2467eFishAntBrett, I also grokked Gregg's "turtle" hunting metaphor. Already I have filled more than a page of inspirations from it. Here is a sampling of my found design patterns, mostly in REBOL which are powerful "turtles" which are concrete examples of what Gregg said:

1. View console where a user can type VID/View lines, and hit return to see what they do. 2. Using print statements to the console from a View script to understand it (so easy to do protytping) 3. Parts of layout.r IDE with Nubs, and you generate scripts (which are human readible) from the GUI. 4. The source and help systems built-in to REBOL 5. Arexx for Inter-App-Messaging (I listened intently to Gab's Reb/Services talk saying "Arexx of the X-Internet") 6. awk file parsing. (I know Gregg wrote rawk.r a while back)

... "Turtle hunting" challenges us to develop more of these.

14-Oct-05 10:28
2466BrianHThe occasional focus changes were due to a bad autofocus situation. Any aleged drunkenness on the part of the cameraman wouldn't have affected the picture :)14-Oct-05 8:35
2465BrettI appreciated being able to see the videos. Facial expressions and tone of speech convey a lot information. Generally, the presentations were interesting - providing good "food for thought". One item out of many, was Gregg's turtle metaphor - a great idea. Leaves you with a new way of looking at things, which is what is great about REBOL itself. Good to see a varied set of participants there too. "Devcon was cool?" - I think the coolest thing was an apparent gathering of momentum and intent going forward. Good stuff.14-Oct-05 8:30
2464BenjaminThe camera man whas drunk ? ;-) Reichart it whas realy cool, i can't watched all the videos today but i'will download them later14-Oct-05 3:01
2463eFishAnt(was meaning tower of Babble)13-Oct-05 20:14
2462eFishAntBabylon is the mainstream state of the art...REBOL brings communications back to mankind...13-Oct-05 18:36
2461KajBut I wouldn't count out Babylon yet...13-Oct-05 18:31
2460KajYes, I do feel recharged :-)13-Oct-05 18:29
2459eFishAntand so will Microsoft. They don't stand a chance now, after watching several videos...13-Oct-05 17:37
2458?Uh, er....Rome fell....13-Oct-05 17:24
2457eFishAntDevcon2004 was like the Pentacost, Devcon2005 seems like the overthrow of the Microsoft Empire, similar to what happened to Rome in early AD's13-Oct-05 17:21
2456Jean-FrançoisJudging from the activity on rebol3, it realy looks like it recharged the batteries of everyone present ... and thanks for including the rest of the community with the videos.13-Oct-05 12:16
2455?So now that you guys have watched some of the videos, do you think this DevCon was cool?13-Oct-05 3:28
2454Gabrieleyep, visit to rome is somewhat experimental, i encoded it with VLC; i hoped for it to be more compatible... but it looks like it is less compatible :(12-Oct-05 23:00
2453LucaI have had the same problem, I saw the video using VLC12-Oct-05 21:48
2452DideCI'm unable to read the "Visit to Rome" video on QT7under Windows !! Downloaded 2 times, but QT still said that there is "MPEG-4 technologie not handled for the moment" It said that it use the "MPEG quantification" (French words)12-Oct-05 21:46
2451GabrieleHTTP links for Visit... and Discussion... :

12-Oct-05 10:15
2450Anton(note: there are a few pdf and zip files under "HTTP links" which are not torrents.)12-Oct-05 7:04
2449AntonTotal size of all the files under "HTTP links" is 1.5 Gigabytes.12-Oct-05 7:01
2448AntonHere is a (hopefully complete) list of links to all the speakers and video presentations:


HTTP links

12-Oct-05 6:56
2447eFishAnt(blowin in the wind)11-Oct-05 22:15
2446eFishAntsome of the lyrics... "The Ants, Mon Ami, They're Fishing in the Sea" (tune stolen from Bob Dylan)11-Oct-05 22:14
2445eFishAntWhenever it is done in France, I have prepared "Dance de la Poisson Electronique"11-Oct-05 22:13
2444eFishAntGeomol said he was glad I did not send him a costume...0-o-o<11-Oct-05 22:11
2443Henrikat least they didn't have a bald guy in a sweaty shirt dancing... :-) or throwing chairs!11-Oct-05 22:07
2442james_nakRE: 2005 Devcon...Yeah, but did they have a guy dancing in a fish suit?11-Oct-05 21:56
2441KajOh, I thought Syllable ;-)11-Oct-05 13:28
2440Henrikby 2008: "Apple who?"11-Oct-05 13:24
2439Henriknext year will be even better. by 2007 the world will be holding their breath, waiting for the latest news from Apple.. sorry, RT. :-)11-Oct-05 13:22
2438KajBecause this one was the "best ever"11-Oct-05 11:45
2437Pekrwhy shoulda things go downhill? :-)11-Oct-05 9:50
2436KajBummer. So you're saying that after my first REBOL Amigaish conference, things can only go downhill from here? :-/11-Oct-05 9:42
2435AmmonThat's funny. Windows Media is playing it just fine. I should have thought to try that first but I didn't think it would work.11-Oct-05 9:29
2434AmmonHm... That's not working either...11-Oct-05 9:20
2433AmmonI should have noticed that I want 0.72 not 0.82 for these videos... Grr. Back to the download page...11-Oct-05 9:14
2432?It was pretty damn cool. Everyone was really amazing. These are all people I would enjoy hanging out with.11-Oct-05 4:48
2431eFishAntAttending several Amiga Devcons gave me an addiction to new ideas, new technologis, and I think this year you blew all the records away. I haven't watched everything yet, but everything so far looks like the best conference I have ever seen in my life.11-Oct-05 2:50
2430eFishAntI wanted to say again how impressed I am with the quality of the DevCon, Gabrielle. The 3-4 Meter screen, the quality of the presentations/speakers and what they said, and what the cameras caught...WOW.11-Oct-05 2:48
2429Colinvlc 0.8.2 1996-2005 - doesnt work, I''ll try an older version then11-Oct-05 2:42
2428PekrStarted BitTorrent client for few hours, so just who wants to download something, I have everything except the Banquet on my PC already ...10-Oct-05 17:22
2427MichaelBvlc 0.72 plays it - it's available in the section of older versions10-Oct-05 16:43

(BitTorrent download. HTTP download will be available as soon as I finish uploading.) Play with QuickTime.

10-Oct-05 16:23
2425GabrieleColin: the audio is standard MPEG4 audio (aka AAC), but it looks like VLC does not like it in this case (64kbps mono). I've been told that some versions of VLC do play it, so maybe it's just a bug.10-Oct-05 15:09
2424LucaNow it works! Thank you10-Oct-05 15:07
2423VolkerDoes it work now? played a bit with options, now someone is downloading.10-Oct-05 14:59
2422LucaYour version of what? QTPlayer or Videolan? I'm using QTPlayer 6.5.2, but I can not help you with Videolan I have never used it.10-Oct-05 14:41
2421Colinwont play either.10-Oct-05 14:38
2420Colinhmm - my version complained about mpeg-4 support10-Oct-05 14:38
2419LucaNo, I don't. Apart for the personal firewall, but it is well configured since I already downloaded many videos.10-Oct-05 14:30
2418Volkeri cant see peers to. hmm, have a firewall on. you too?10-Oct-05 14:27
2417LucaVolker - I can't still donwload. I think that I can reach you only thru the tracker.10-Oct-05 14:25
2416LucaColin - I don't know which the codec is but they play well with Quick time Player.10-Oct-05 14:24
2415Volkertrying to seed, may give 15k/sec10-Oct-05 14:11
2414ColinWhat codecs do these videos need? None of them have any sound when I play them with Videolan - latest version.10-Oct-05 14:07
2413LucaI cann't donwload the "Visit to Rome and Milan" video. I downloaded 67% of it but now the client doen't reconnect to any peers. Is the tracker down?10-Oct-05 13:17
2412AllenPekr: re Electronic Invoicing. We have a pretty simple system here call BPAY / View which allows invoices to appear inside the client internet banking. Supported by most of our large banks and used by councils, utility companies to do invoicing. A client just signs up to receive invoices in electronic format. 22:04
2411Gabrieleabout "I don't want to write it myself" - we're lucky that some of us don't think like that (i.e. nenad's mysql:// and so on...) :-) but anyway, if you need it, and are even ready to pay for it, i'm quite sure that you'll be able to find a rebol developer willing to do it for you... I can't speak for RT so I can't tell you if we are gonna do it or not; i think REBOL's SSL implementation needs this functionality, but there are so many things in the todo list...9-Oct-05 14:57
2410GabrielePetr... I'm just saying that certificates have nothing to do with LNS, not that they should not be part of REBOL's SSL implementation.9-Oct-05 14:54
2409Pekrmaybe I should post my request in RT Q&A group ...9-Oct-05 10:19
2408PekrI expect that in some way the code is inside already. The trouble also is with /Command. Today security should not be luxury but default. If I understand it correctly, even BEER uses cloaking in order for BEER to be usable by everyone. Now it is the question, if such certificate support would be available only to /Pro /Command and /SDK users, or ...9-Oct-05 10:18
2407Pekrnow to be more constructive - Gabriele, is there any chance, that if I write down my requirements, RT can outline how much would it cost to bring certificates to rebol? :-) I do not know how much, but maybe 1000 EUR could be spent by our company to have it available. It is not much, but l expect discount, if I let RT to provide result to the community :-)9-Oct-05 10:13
2406PekrWe are one of the first companies here in CZ, who try to fully solve electronic invoicing. In order to not need a paper, our law (and many EU countries too), simply require usage of certificates. It has nothing to do with how secure your transfer is. Simply once financial institute clerk comes to our company, he wants to see original invoices. And so far, it is paper. And if it is e.g. PDF, it has to be signed, as the person will ask - how can I be sure, it comes from company XY? He can - he can check e-signature and time-stamps signatures and he can be sure, that 1) the invoice comes from company (identity) XY and that it was not later modified, or the e-signatures would be invalid ...9-Oct-05 10:07
2405PekrNow let me explain 2):9-Oct-05 10:03
2404PekrI mentioned certificates for two reasons here. 1) IIRC Holger (or someone from RT, do not remember right now) said, that internally Rebol has some parser for that, but the API for that is not exposed 2) it seems to me, that there might be some parts of the world, where encryption is enough, and there is nothing bad with such opinion, in regards to such countries ...9-Oct-05 10:03
2403PekrIt is all about - you can do it with rebol, or you can't. Talk "enablers" once again. Do you think that ppl look at tools to actually produce some support first, or they simply want to use it for the task given. One example - someone wants to use PostGress for e.g. Now he is looking for some tool, eventually likes rebol. There is a BIG difference if such person is about to just do %postgress-driver.r and connect and use it, or to actually spend months producing the driver on his/her own.9-Oct-05 10:00
2402PekrAnd as for certificates - here we go once again - you have parser, you can study standards, you can implement everything yourself. Now I would like to remind you, that I am not here to actually come-up with some solution, especially in the case when I am not skilled enough to produce one myself, but I want to use some solution out-of-the-box.9-Oct-05 9:58
2401PekrIn regards to SSL I only rephrased, that somehow by-the-way, there was once plan for better support even in that area - just look at the last paragraph of Command SSL doc :-)9-Oct-05 9:56
2400PekrGabriele - "LNS does not need to support "certificates" as it does not need SSL" - was was it me or you ;-)9-Oct-05 9:54
2399GabrielePetr: i'm sorry, but it's you who are confusing certificates and SSL. there is absolutely nothing preventing you to parse certificate files, in any format; i really don't understand what kind of "support" do you need.9-Oct-05 9:40
2398Pekryeksoon - mostly whole EU, e.g. to do electronic invoicing, needs qualitified (not even commercial) certificates produced by some reliable Certification Authority. What is more, such certificates do expire in one year. For such invoices to be valid, you need kind of "long-term archive", you need simply to re-sign them. So you typically go and use so called time-stamps (kind of certificates), provided by CA once again ....9-Oct-05 8:39
2397yeksoonthis is an area where I see Rebol, either built-in or as an third-party addon, needs to support 'standard'9-Oct-05 8:34
2396PekrAllen: so many? :-) Where? Yes, X.509 of course. Simply put, to be able to work with certificates in OS or to have own container. Every browser can do it. It has nothing to do with security itself, it is about identity. You can be secure as much as you want, but there are parties which will not talk to you, if your server/user/customer is not clearly identified ...9-Oct-05 8:16
2395AllenPekr: There are so many "standards" that can vary by country, govt and industry, or platform. Can you specify which certification methodology you mean? is it x.509 ?9-Oct-05 4:25
2394BrettAs for lns development, I did a small lns emulation a while back based on published info. I found writing a service was easy, I think Gabriele demonstrated this well. I concluded that lns was a great idea, but there will be a learning curve of course. Reqesting the service from the client is a one-liner, but that is only the beginning of the story. Aside from the careful thought required in designing a service API, it will be interesting to see how people structure their client code because I think that is where the complexity of lns development could be from a programming point of view (e.g dealing with the service response). Of course it depends on the application.9-Oct-05 3:34
2393Pekrsolution = opinion9-Oct-05 1:43
2392PekrGabriele - certificates do not have ANYTHING in common with SSL. and not understanding its role is fatal mistake for any rebol security related role. I have to say it so strongly, as I do work in that area for last two years ... I am far from being expert here, but I have enought experience to back up my solution - forget Rebol, if you will not be able to work with certificates.9-Oct-05 1:42
2391PekrGabriele - then you surely don't know, what I mean by certificates. And in fact - 1) RT's lack of support is quite weird indication of what the real world is using 2) not having SSL server mode as stated in Command docs in the last paragraph of "to do", is quite some limitation too ...9-Oct-05 1:39
2390SunandaLast public announcement said live by may-2005: Perhaps you could ask via the RT Q&A8-Oct-05 22:45
2389GrahamWhat is the status of LNS anyway? Did I hear Carl say 90% ?8-Oct-05 21:56
2388Volkeri mean getting features of non-lns-related apps by pluging in. using beer features, webserver features, whatever.8-Oct-05 19:27
2387Volkerdepends on the additional features you get. and if this is arexx, this additional features, pluging into apps, is an lns-feature?8-Oct-05 19:26
2386KajThat's why I asked Carl about any overlap between them like authentication. He seemed to like the idea of combining them, too8-Oct-05 19:25
2385VolkerAs i see it beer is one way to use lns. cgi is another. Gabs lns too. Would it matter much that it is not build from Gabs lns code? I mean as Gab says - ah, you typed that already - i could even imagine lns over com if i need it from some windows app.8-Oct-05 19:24
2384KajThe point being that BEER is not an implementation of LNS, but that they're on different levels and augment eachother8-Oct-05 19:24
2383KajAnd for LNS you need a transport, and this could be BEER8-Oct-05 19:23
2382Gabrieleyep.8-Oct-05 19:23
2381KajI think we're both saying the same. If you need BEER functionality, LNS is still good to have on top8-Oct-05 19:22
2380Gabrielepetr: LNS does not need to support "certificates" as it does not need SSL. actually, i don't see any reason for having SSL as a transport for LNS as it is already encrypted.8-Oct-05 19:22
2379Gabrielewhat i'm saying is that there's no real advantage in having lns over beer unless you are already using beer.8-Oct-05 19:20
2378KajYes, you can still use them separately. But they offer functionality on different levels8-Oct-05 19:20
2377Gabrieleso you can have lns over tcp, http or beer8-Oct-05 19:20
2376Gabrielecorrect, beer is transport, like tcp or http8-Oct-05 19:19
2375VolkerSo i hope most code could be exchanged and beer could be seen as just another lns-transport.8-Oct-05 19:19
2374GabrieleBEER does channelling in one single connection. if you don't need that, there's no advantage in using it vs. plain tcp. lns is doing its own auth/encryption and so on anyway.8-Oct-05 19:19
2373KajBut LNS is not a transport protocol8-Oct-05 19:19
2372Volkerfrom beer-docs: The design has been inspired by rough draft about LNS protocol developed by Rebol Technologies.8-Oct-05 19:18
2371KajI don't know the details yet, but my understanding is that BEER does a lot more in terms of transport then LNS. LNS needs a transport and BEER is much more advanced than basic Internet protocols8-Oct-05 19:18
2370Gabriele(http will let you go thru firewalls too)8-Oct-05 19:18
2369Gabrieleif you are only using lns, it's much easier to just use tcp or http etc.8-Oct-05 19:18
2368Gabrielei mean, if you are using something like the apps demoed by jaime, then it may be useful to channel lns in the same connection too8-Oct-05 19:17
2367Gabrielehmm, only if you are already using beer for something else. otherwise, beer doesn't give you anything more vs. lns on tcp or http8-Oct-05 19:16
2366KajWe talked about LNS on top of BEER. This would be an ideal combo8-Oct-05 19:16

Note: this is an experiment; encoded with avidemux on linux and converted from avi to mp4 with VLC. (iMovie wasn't producing a good quality result) play with VLC. (BitTorrent download - HTTP download available as soon as i finish uploading)

8-Oct-05 19:14
2364VolkerBeer uses an api as outlined by Carl. So its one lns-implementation good enough to be published. Maybe the two could merge for the async daemon part.8-Oct-05 18:24
2363PekrWhatever the situation is - LNS and BEER should start to think about supporting certificates ASAP!8-Oct-05 18:17
2362PekrCarl was curiously interested in BEER. Now the question is - was he trying to assure himself that LNS is good enough for most things even without BEER or was he mapping the situation to include BEER in REBOL? :-)8-Oct-05 18:15
2361Henrikis that what's called "Viral Marketing"? :-)8-Oct-05 14:18
2360Gabriele 14:05
2359GabrieleRobert: no... but, i could zip the dir for you... don't think all photos are there yet, though.8-Oct-05 14:05
2358RobertIs there a way to download all pictures at once?8-Oct-05 13:54
2357Jean-FrançoisGregg has two files8-Oct-05 12:15
2356JoeThe total number of mpeg files is 10, right ? or does Gregg have two files for his two presentations ?8-Oct-05 11:06
2355GabrieleArgentina: Cesar Chavez.8-Oct-05 10:08
2354BenjaminMario, argentina are you shure ? again i would like to know who she/he is because i know only one programer from here.8-Oct-05 5:48
2353BrockLuca, yes, I saw Gregg in person at the Devcon2004 and he's a great speaker (he's also a stag actor, so likely helps here). He also really knows what he's talking about when it comes to languages. I've borrowed his expertise to help defend the merits of Rebol to some developer friends who just didn't get it - more like, they wouldn't listen to reason. Gregg would make a great evangilist for RT.8-Oct-05 4:14
2352GabrieleSpain: Tomas Bonte. England: noone that i know of.7-Oct-05 20:02
2351Joethanks. I check the map but doesn't have the info. Who were the attendees from England and Spain ?7-Oct-05 19:03
2350GabrieleAlan: i don't think your error is due to the limit of 3 I talked about. if that persists, try downloading via HTTP instead.7-Oct-05 18:39
2349Tomcjoe it is in links7-Oct-05 18:14
2348AlanJoe:start Rebol/View/public/sites/Chris RG/where7-Oct-05 17:58
2347MarioI have the list of nations given to the newspaper reporters (extracted by Gabriele from the registration database): Italy, USA, Czeck Republic, Belgium, Germany, Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Argentina, Austria, Denmark, Spain, Hungary. Jaime was born in Colombia so maybe this is the 15th nation7-Oct-05 17:54
2346Alanchecking7-Oct-05 17:52
2345Joechris had an app where one could check a map with all the nationalities. any idea where to get it ?7-Oct-05 17:47
2344Alanand in the South Pole during the summer7-Oct-05 17:46
2343HenrikDenmark too :-)7-Oct-05 17:45
2342Alanwell we have a meber in China right now plus New Zealand,England,Canada,Scotland,Poland,Russia?7-Oct-05 17:45
2341Joewhat other nationalities attended devcon appart from US, Germany, France, Italy, Czech, Australia (carl mentioned 13 to 15 nationalities)7-Oct-05 17:42
2340AlanGabriele:I am dling the Barons and Ashley but when i try to dl Roberts I get:error(10:14am) couldn't listen-(10048,addressalready in use') I know you said only 3 at a time but I am only dling 2 ?7-Oct-05 17:16
2339Alanand Ashleys' : 17:06
2338AlanBarons' link : 17:05
2337GabrieleReichart's video is uploading now.7-Oct-05 16:03
2336Pekrthere is also imo a bug in Face skeleton slide - there is incorrect closing bracket ...7-Oct-05 13:23
2335PekrCyphre - in your archive, there is a bug in window.r - there is win1: word used, while there should be only win: .... Gabriele - maybe you could fix it?7-Oct-05 13:21
2334LucaI'm watching the Gregg's Dialect presentation his introduction was really on the beam and he is a great speaker.7-Oct-05 12:49
2333Henrikit'll be smaller next year :-) I promise7-Oct-05 12:40
2332Gabrielethat's why i wanted it smaller ;) but... it was good anyway. :)7-Oct-05 12:39
2331Henrikhmm... the timer is a bit distracting. (watching the Gabriele video now :-))7-Oct-05 12:38
2330GabrieleAshley's speech is now on too.7-Oct-05 12:37
2329LucaNow I can see them... thank you for the close up.7-Oct-05 12:29
2328MichaelByes wanted to ask this, as my photos didn't appear :-)7-Oct-05 11:17
2327Gabriele(hmm, the crontab to make photo thumbnails is not wroking, i'll have a look at it later on. in the meantime i'm going to update the page manually.)7-Oct-05 11:11
2326Gabriele(btw, Robert's video is online)7-Oct-05 10:52
2325Gabrielecheap digital camera (samsung vp-d101), Apple's iMovie for editing and encoding.7-Oct-05 10:51
2324JoeGabriele, which camara was used to film the talks and which encoder did you use ? thanks for providing the videos7-Oct-05 10:14
2323Henrikno need. I hope I'll get broadband back up no later than early next week. my critical wifi antenna is broken somehow and I can't receive anything from the remote ADSL site... haven't found out what's wrong yet.6-Oct-05 21:07
2322AlanHenrik: when they are all done, I can burn a cd and send to you ?6-Oct-05 20:51
2321Henrikoh I'm so sick of being stuck on a 56k modem... :-)6-Oct-05 19:45
2320Alanand Jaimes: 19:36
2319AlanMaartens presentation: 19:34
2318MichaelBok I'm uploading now a few photos, all smaller than 4 mb6-Oct-05 19:01
2317MichaelBI try to reduce them a bit first.6-Oct-05 18:39
2316Gabrielecan you reduce them a bit? otherwise i'll ask carl if the limit can be raised.6-Oct-05 18:33
2315Gabrielemaybe Apache is limited to 4 mb for POST...6-Oct-05 18:32
2314MichaelBThen I got also 3 quicktimes from the QA round after the devcon before the banquet, question is whether somebody is interested in them, so they might be uploaded somewhere as well. Just to note, that they're not especially good (just from my digital camera) and don't contain directly a lot of footage to be able to understand what has been talked about. More or less my girlfriend taking some videos from the people. ?!6-Oct-05 18:27
2313MichaelBI tried to upload some photos to the DevCon page, but the Rebol tool told me that it failed due to a too long posting. Photos are about 4,5 MB, not larger than 5, is this really too much as the already uploaded photos are also around 3+ MB (at least some) ?6-Oct-05 18:24
2312Volkerthanks6-Oct-05 18:14
2311Alanlink for Greg : 18:07

Return to Index Page