REBOL3 - Rebol/Flash dialect (content related to Rebol/Flash dialect [web-public])

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553RebolekNick, it's exactly what's supposed to be there :) It's a personal server and has no main page. There's only a picture that cahnges from time to time.13-Jan-10 10:11
552ForkI watch the web server log go by, random hacking attempts for software I don't have installed. Anyone could just type in a random url, look at the debugging output, find that (for instance) and bring down the server. But it seems no hackers are interested in doing so. :)13-Jan-10 5:28
551MaximNick, if you get hacked... you can just log on to altme and ask... "who did it?" ;-)13-Jan-10 5:26
550ForkBut I imagine the infinite loop was testing and not malice.13-Jan-10 5:26
549ForkWhen I hacked up the TryRebol thing someone typed in an infinite loop or something. So I moved it to 5:26
548NickAI don't think this is what's supposed to be at 5:26
547NickAYep - I feel quite safe :)13-Jan-10 5:25
546Grahamsecurity via obscurity13-Jan-10 5:21
545NickAForget PHP and user REBOL - it's not vulnerable because hardly anyone even knows it exists ... :)13-Jan-10 5:21
544NickAI was hoping maybe an updated version was coming!13-Jan-10 5:19
543GrahamProbably just another PHP vulnerability13-Jan-10 5:18
542NickAOldes, did get attacked?13-Jan-10 5:16
541MaximI've also thought about buing the game, especially to play with my kids :-)7-Jan-10 20:15
540DockimbelCorrection: it was "Frontier: Elite II"7-Jan-10 18:58
539GrahamHmm.. I think I have Elite for C647-Jan-10 18:54
538DockimbelBtw, I will buy a Machinarium full version, I've enjoyed playing the demo. That would be the first game I'll buy since David Braben's "Elite" release on Amiga. ;-)7-Jan-10 18:50
537DockimbelThe REBOL/Flash dialect should have been mentionned in Machinarium's credits.7-Jan-10 18:48
536CyphreJanko, the Rebol/Flash dialect is basically compiler of flash(swf) files which uses own specific language - dialect for that. I think programmers who are working(painfully) with Flash IDE every day would love it. I don't understand why the dialect is not well known in the Flash comunity. Maybe because you need to learn from the examples on the website and also get Rebol in your mind a bit ;)7-Jan-10 18:05
535joannakI have demoed Machinarium to couple of my friends who are not active gamers and they all seem to like it a lot. I liked this game so much I purchased it for myself as a X.mas present.6-Jan-10 11:35
534JankoMy neighbour here in Ljubljana hackerspace bought Machinarium and showed it to me yesterda, very very very awesome!!! He also wrote this blogpost today .. 11:18
533NickAOldes, others _will_ use it if it's well documented, especially when they know that Machinarium was created with it. If you have a chance to upload the newest version of REBOL/flash, you'll have my undying gratitude :) ... I'm reading and re-reading the examples now and organizing how to document important parts of the dialect, and basics of using it. I think you could attract some of the flash development community if documentation is presented and promoted the right way - it's such a light and useful tool to create swf. And with Machinarium you have an extraordinary example of a beautiful working application...1-Jan-10 18:29
532amacleodNick that would be great (adding a section to your tutorial). You have a way of explaining stuff. I look forward to it.31-Dec-09 15:31
531Jankohaha.. cool how scrollbars are made :) .. Oldes this flash dialect of you is sort of a mistery to all of us I think :) it like open source thing?31-Dec-09 12:51
530OldesI don't think that there is someone else using the dialect so it's very unlikely there are any other tutorials. BTW the version used on my site is quite old. I would like to update it soon.31-Dec-09 10:28
529OldesWhat do you mean "reference page"? I was not making many web pages using the dialect as making the game was very time consuming. But in the past I used it for example to make this site 10:26
528NickAOldes - truly awesome stuff! In the past I only peeked at REBOL/Flash, but diving into it and LOVING the possibilities :) I'll add a section about it to the tutorial after more experience. Maybe Machinarium is REBOL's first killer app - certainly seems to be getting a lot of exposure. Best of luck with it! (just bought the games myself and really enjoying it :)31-Dec-09 6:23
527amacleodYes, that looks quite similar... Oldes, Is that the only reference page..the demo page?

Otherwise, can you recommend any good tutorial sites?

30-Dec-09 15:23
526OldesI'm not sure if you are not familiar with flash itself. I used it to make so why not something else.29-Dec-09 20:36
525amacleodCould a i use the dialect to build something like this: 6:44
524amacleodNot too familiar with flash or the dialect the only page for info on it?29-Dec-09 6:43
523RobertS.22-May-09 15:59
522Oldesof course.. you are the big task master:)19-Jan-09 1:07
521ReichartIt is easier if you just blame me...18-Jan-09 23:47
520GrahamCarl is maintaining Altme.18-Jan-09 22:26
519BrianHSafeWorlds writes AltME - they are partnered with RT, but it's not the same company.18-Jan-09 21:18
518ChrisThe URL ovelay code goes back to IOS iirc - it should be open to fix...18-Jan-09 20:09
517GrahamCarl AFAIK writes Altme ... ask him18-Jan-09 19:21
516OldesAnd it must be so easy to fix it!18-Jan-09 18:07
515Oldes(stupid Altme URL bug) I wonder if Reichart will ever fix it18-Jan-09 18:06
514OldesI'm not a big fun of these wanna be desktop apps. If I look at the AIR apps list here: .. there is almost nothing I would like to even try. And if you will have to pay 300$ per year to sign such an apps... I'm not much interested at all.18-Jan-09 18:05
513OldesI think you need a valid AIR certificate to sign your apps. 17:55
512Oldesnot yet18-Jan-09 17:49
511PekrOldes - have you tried doing any application using Adobe AIR? I would like to know your eventual experience ...18-Jan-09 16:49
510GabrieleCool, then keep us posted about the release, I'll buy it for sure.14-Oct-08 9:03
509Grahamapparently13-Oct-08 23:06
508amacleodFlash inbedded in a rebol face?13-Oct-08 13:34
507OldesIt could be probably in Rebol as well. It depends how far is Cyphre with the Flash plugin integration into Rebol's face and if Pekr's friend will give the rights for Rebol community to use it.13-Oct-08 11:18
506OldesIt's just a Flash so it can (will) be in browser as well, if you have a plugin.13-Oct-08 11:15
505Gabrielewill this be multiplatform or windows only? or do you play in the browser like samorost? (from the review it seemed like it's a standalone game rather than one you can play in the browser)13-Oct-08 7:59
504OldesYes. I think there are 4 or 5 people involved. The hand painting is currenty by Adolf Lachman (according Jabub's propositions)11-Oct-08 20:47
503HenrikNo, there are multiple people involved in the game. They are also behind the Samorost 1 and 2 games, which you can play here:

10-Oct-08 11:40
502RobertFrom his statement above I read it as he did.10-Oct-08 9:28
501RebolekAFAIK, Oldes didn't draw it.10-Oct-08 9:24
500RobertOldes, what do you use for the hand painting? Do you use crayons?10-Oct-08 9:00
499SunandaLooks great, Oldes!10-Oct-08 8:48
498Willlove it! 8-)10-Oct-08 3:47
497AntonLooks really nice, Oldes.9-Oct-08 2:37
496GrahamI guess I should use rebol plugin in instead.8-Oct-08 20:36
495Oldesno, it should not be difficult, but I don't have a time at all now.8-Oct-08 19:24
494GrahamDo you have a annotation program that can load up a png that one can draw on? the png will be on the server.8-Oct-08 18:42
493GeomolThat's really cool! :-)8-Oct-08 16:55
492RobertOldes, did you draw the stuff?8-Oct-08 14:00
491RebolekNice8-Oct-08 13:58
490OldesHand painted, scaned, finalized in photoshop, then prepared animations in Flash and done interactivity in my dialect. I'm also using my dialect to get scaled versions as the original is 1250x790 - Flash can scale on runtime, but that would slow down the rendering, so I scale all graphics during compile time.8-Oct-08 13:43
489HenrikWould love to get more info on that game, how it's done, Oldes.8-Oct-08 13:09
488Pekrcool gfx!8-Oct-08 12:54
487OldesFirst demo with just 3 levels of game Machinarium, which I'm working on using my Rebol/Flash dialect, was presented on E for All festival. Here is one recension: 12:45
486BrianHThe Haxe dialect (to use REBOL terms) can be compiled to Neko (or Flash, ...) but the dialect processor is implemented in Neko, and the surface syntax resembles Neko (last time I checked).24-Sep-08 23:05
485BrianHMore specific: Haxe is based on Neko and even the Flash and other web target code is generated by internal Neko code, even if the target is not more Neko code. The web dialect that Haxe implements is similar to the kind of dialect that you would implement to do the same thing in REBOL, though the syntax is different because the language underlying Haxe is Neko, not REBOL.24-Sep-08 23:03
484OldesMaybe it's right time for you, but not for me as I really don't have a time for it at this moment. And it doesn't make too much practical sense to me. Especially if I'm able to get the bytecode myself.24-Sep-08 10:20
483OldesNeko is another Nicolas Cannasse's (author of mtasc and haxe) project 10:11
482RobertBTW: What is this Neko stuff about? Never heard about it. What's the USP of it?24-Sep-08 8:06
481RobertBrian, sorry don't get it. Can you be more specific? I thought Haxe is an abstraction that can be compiled into Neko.24-Sep-08 8:06
480RobertOldes, it might be the right time to start with such a thing. I need to play around with Haxe but it might really make sense.24-Sep-08 8:05
479BrianHThe entire Haxe project is basically doing a REBOL-style web dialect in Neko instead of REBOL.23-Sep-08 19:19
478OldesIt would have more sense to write Rebol dialect to get Haxe or AS code. I was already thinking about it in the past but I never found enough motives and time to do it.23-Sep-08 15:44
477RobertYes, I know. I would like to write Rebol as well but I can't reinvent the world all the time. And Haxe is c-ish enough to get it into my brain :-)23-Sep-08 15:42
476OldesAs I use my dialect because I don't want to write AS.23-Sep-08 15:41
475OldesWriting Haxe code to get Rebol is useless. At least for me. I don't want to write Haxe, I want to write my own dialect.23-Sep-08 15:40
474RobertDoing online apps etc. requires a non-rebol client technology as discussed in full-length in all kind of groups. And, I don't want to mess around with 100s of different technologies.23-Sep-08 12:35
473RobertI use one language as input and can generate the client side (flash, js) and server side (php, js, ... and maybe Rebol) out of my project.23-Sep-08 12:34
472Pekr... and the point doing so is? :-)23-Sep-08 11:54
471RobertNo, you can write Haxe code and create Rebol out of it that can be run on a server.23-Sep-08 10:38
470PekrWhat is purpose of such emiter? Are you trying to suggest, that you can write general rebol code without limitations and have it "translated" to PHP for e.g.? Is that possible? All that REBOL dynamism, parser, etc.? Or are you talking about translating limited functionality, e.g. some dialect?23-Sep-08 10:14
469RobertI think I will give it a try. We should add a Rebol emitter, using the PHP one as a starting point.23-Sep-08 10:02
468RobertI took a look at this haxe stuff. Quite impressive. It really looks like these guys did a good job to give you a lingua france that can emit to the most common client and server technologies in use.23-Sep-08 10:01
467OldesI do networking stuff. For example here is my experimental IRC like chat 16:46
466OldesI would not call it AS compiler. It's not AS what I'm writing in my dialect. But I can do whatever you do in AS. The result of my compiler is same bytecode as you get compiling AS code. (just don't have support for AS3 bytecode as I don't need it much.22-Sep-08 16:44
465RobertIs your Rebol dialect able to compile all AS stuff? I'm not interested in the graphics stuff but only in using Flash's socket stuff to do some networking code.22-Sep-08 15:13
464RobertOk, great. Thanks for the tipp.22-Sep-08 15:12
463OldesIf you would like to compile AS3 (for Flash 9 and later) use the hexe. It's made by the same author.22-Sep-08 14:51
462OldesFor you, the first one... MTASC should be the best choice (to compile AS).22-Sep-08 14:49
461OldesYou may guess, that I'm using my own Rebol dialect instead.22-Sep-08 14:48
460OldesAnd or download Flex sdk and look for /lib/asc.jar (AS compiler)22-Sep-08 14:47
459OldesAnd or 14:46
458OldesIf you want to write AS, then you can use: 14:45
457RobertI just want to write some stuff code in AS and get it compiled.22-Sep-08 13:05
456RobertWhat's a good tool to write AS and get a SWF compiled? Is it only the Adobe Flash CS3? It costs $700...22-Sep-08 13:05
455RobertThe different security modles per version might be tricky, but I think I "just" need to get it right for versions 7.8.9 to cover most users.15-Sep-08 13:39
454RobertI just want to open a socket to the same domain the falsh was read from.15-Sep-08 13:38
453OldesAs you have to allow the connection from the target domain. The reason is to prevent DoS attacks from Flash players.15-Sep-08 12:17
452OldesIt's also important, if you want to access same domain or different domain and if you have control over the domain where you want to connect to.15-Sep-08 12:15
451OldesNo.. because I don't know, what exactly you want to do and in which version of Flash - the security model differs from version to version. 12:13
450RobertCan you be more specific about the security stuff?15-Sep-08 8:02
449Oldesbut there are some security issues you have to count with14-Sep-08 18:10
448Oldesyes14-Sep-08 18:09
447RobertCool. So, I could use Flash & AS without any visual flash sutff just to open a non-http channel to a server and get answers back into the Browser?14-Sep-08 10:37
446Oldesyes, yes12-Sep-08 22:24
445RobertI have some questions for our Flash experts:

1. Is it possible to open a plain socket from Flash to a remote host? 2. Can I modify the DOM of th browser from AS?

12-Sep-08 14:46
444Pekrmostly a menu, and texts ... but some texts are on multiple pages, while still in one SWF. There is something like 30 pages, so it might be easiest to do screenshots ....17-Mar-08 14:48
443OldesThat's probably the easiest way:) It's hard to say as you can have whatever in your files which we don't see... they can be movies for example:)17-Mar-08 14:45
442PekrBut maybe I will just click thru the presentation, do screenshots manually, put them into word or powerpoint file, and turn it into pdf, dunno ...17-Mar-08 14:26
441PekrOur idea was to somehow get it at least printed, scanned, and put it into PDF (their requirement).17-Mar-08 14:25
440PekrSorry for partly missuing this channel, although you might have some answer for me. One regulatory company asked us to put online our company's annual report. Unfortunately, it is some older years, which are missing - 2005/6. And all I have is nicely done annual report in Flash. It is an .exe. But - each page is in separte subdir, where is plenty of .SWF files. I am looking into method of converting it into PDF, or something like that :-)17-Mar-08 14:24
439RodVery nice Oldes, other than the one undefined question blip it played very nicely and looked great.1-Mar-08 16:02
438RodAfter clicking one of the undefined answers it then gave normal question/answers1-Mar-08 15:52
437RodOn stage 6 the first question bubble was undefined for the question and all the answers?1-Mar-08 15:51
436Anton(I think it does actually. Quite a nice game, Questionaut)1-Mar-08 15:15
435AntonNot quite enough time to read the answers. Maybe clicking should shorten it.1-Mar-08 14:48
434Antonbug: stage 4, when the platform rises, the key that should be sitting on it remains unmoved (floating in mid-air).1-Mar-08 14:43
433Anton(from Links, OK figured it out.)1-Mar-08 14:37
432AntonAh yes I know that one.26-Feb-08 4:58
431OldesSothink25-Feb-08 21:21
430Anton:) And what is the name of that SWF decompiler ?25-Feb-08 12:52
429OldesI don't know, I don't care.25-Feb-08 10:48
428AntonWell, that's very interesting... Do you consider that a deficiency of the SWF decompiler ?25-Feb-08 10:35
427OldesThe data are at this moment from Yahoo maps... which story do you want? It should be paraglide contest visiualisation.. people jump from a hill with GPS and have to fly thru defined points. There is no pure rebol version.. I use rebol to parse the GPS data and convert them to precompiled SWF data.. also I use Rebol to compile the main file. Parts of the Rebol code is in google-maps chat as I was discovering the system from Rebol as well. And when you talk about hiding... as I'm using some non standard ways how to compile loops in my dialect, the best SWF decompiler I now is not able to decompile it correctly:)25-Feb-08 8:39
426AntonHmm... Oldes' way of hiding his source ! ;)25-Feb-08 7:56
425ReichartAnd Oldes, where is the script?24-Feb-08 16:54
424ReichartWhat is the story behind this?23-Feb-08 20:12
423ReichartWhere is the map data coming from?23-Feb-08 20:12
422james_nakVery cool.22-Feb-08 18:55
421AntonIs there a pure rebol version of xsider ?22-Feb-08 12:18
420Anton(I just looked at xsider, not the other ones yet.)22-Feb-08 12:12
419AntonVery nice Oldes ! Excellent work.22-Feb-08 12:08
418PekrOldes - fantastic!22-Feb-08 10:14
417Oldesof course real data:)22-Feb-08 8:29
416GeomolYes, and funny! :-) Is it real data being used?21-Feb-08 21:46
415Grahamvery impressive oldes21-Feb-08 21:37
414OldesIt's still far to be finished, but I cannot help myself - paragliding contest visualisation made in Rebol/Flash dialect - 21:03
413OldesFor GIF files the compiler tries to use build in Rebol load function which will fail in Core - I would need LZW decompressor first to support it.4-Jan-08 16:26
412Oldes(JPG support is still available - this was working in Core before as JPG are different type of images in SWF structure where is not required almost any change for embedding them)4-Jan-08 16:25
411OldesThe ICO support is just an experimental as I need to use it for something specific.4-Jan-08 16:13
410OldesRebol/Flash dialect updated Added support for loading ICO, BMP and PNG images without need to use Rebol/View. It's possible that some types of these images will not be loaded correctly yet, as I didn't tested all possibilities. The 'KEY word is not supported now with ImageCore loader, use PNG instead if you want transparent images. Also all images are stored as DefineBitsLossless2 type (with alpha).

Also it's written just in Rebol - I would like to optimize it in RebCode in the future.

4-Jan-08 16:11
409Oldes(it a memory game - pexeso) any other question? :)24-Dec-07 20:01
408Oldes 19:58
407GiuseppeC?24-Dec-07 19:57
406OldesImageStream in a real life usage: 21:50
405james_nakExcellent as usual.21-Dec-07 16:07
404OldesIt's the script from Core chat here21-Dec-07 15:01
403OldesI also use script which goes thru dir sctructure and prepares XML file with image sizes which is used inside the swf21-Dec-07 15:00
402OldesThey looks like the files in examples... here is for example the clip loader: 14:59
401BrockOldes, I;d like to see what the REbol file looks like that generates the site... do you have some examples you can share?21-Dec-07 13:14
400Willyea, I'd like to know as well.. ;-)20-Dec-07 22:18
399GrahamWhat are your rates for doing websites oldes ? :)20-Dec-07 20:42
398Oldesthe swf file has 60kB (including all text data and 2 fonts) Images are loaded as external files.20-Dec-07 16:34
397Oldesand here is a simple site I did with this version of Rebol/Flash dialect 16:32
396OldesI did some compilers speed optimizations = 16:31
395WillI was speaking more about spreading rebol not really relate to your dialect, AVI is just a codec, quicktime support about 200 codecs, even flash (but version 4 only, and they disabled it as default with latest upgrade for security reasons..many quictime content broke..) and it as support for wired scripting, only that is hasnt evolved int the last 5 years.. too bad18-Nov-07 23:10
394OldesI don't need millions people to use something what I do... and to be honest.. I don't prefere quicktime.. but I would like to look how the format differs from avi one day18-Nov-07 23:05
393Willquicktime is already everywhere , it only lacks a real scripting language, where rebol would fit very very well !18-Nov-07 23:03
392Willyes that would be better, but that idea is just because it would be easier to have it installed on millions computers.. having people install rebol web plugin will take time to spread18-Nov-07 23:02
391Willand with simple version upgrade, million of people get rebol power ready to use in a way that will make them Huuu..WOAA18-Nov-07 23:01
390OldesAnd wouldn't it be better to have quicktime and flash embedded in Rebol?18-Nov-07 23:00
389WillI have this idea that the second more installed browser plugin is quicktime, it once had wired actions, etc, but then apple went ipod adn moveis.. There was a company wich did LiveStage to build wired movies, they are now about dead, quicktime still has a whole lot od codecs and I dream that RT will work with apple , embed rebol in quicktime plugin or as a codec so that we can program stuff in rebol with aac and mpeg4... 8)18-Nov-07 22:59
388OldesI don't want just to take something I don't understand how it works18-Nov-07 22:57
387OldesI like to learn myself18-Nov-07 22:57
386OldesBut it's all about learning... at least for me18-Nov-07 22:56
385OldesTerry was arguing here, that he can make guis with flex in a few minutes:)18-Nov-07 22:56
384WillI have big hopes in R3, and not really looking into Flex, I'm rebol afficionado! althought some points Tarry made are true, like in php you can find about everything ready, but doing it in rebol is more about learning18-Nov-07 22:56
383Willwhat you mean like Terry?18-Nov-07 22:54
382Oldesif you are like terry.. you sould use flex. You have to know actionscript anyway, if you want to use my dialect. The function's names has to be same18-Nov-07 22:54
381WillYea, I've opened many time the flash IDE but it never lasted more then 5 minutes..18-Nov-07 22:53
380OldesLook... I'm not making a factory standard like an Adobe... I'm not factory..18-Nov-07 22:52
379WillYour dialect is something that could drive lots of flash guys to look more in Rebol !18-Nov-07 22:52
378WillHopefully we get a R3 with rebcode not too far in the near future ;-)18-Nov-07 22:51
377OldesThe image loading code part is suitable for rebcode imho... I'm using rebolversion with rebcode to create pixel fonts.18-Nov-07 22:50 I'll have to learn teh dialect.. humm18-Nov-07 22:50
375WillOk really great, thank you Oldes!18-Nov-07 22:50
374Willfins=find18-Nov-07 22:49
373OldesI can make a core version probably. Not today.18-Nov-07 22:49
372WillI was only trying to fins a solution to run examples with /core 8)18-Nov-07 22:49
371WillIt's impressively fast!! 8)18-Nov-07 22:49
370OldesI think that it's better to have the images embedded. Whu do you want to stress server to provide so many reqyest like to get image which has 123 bytes?18-Nov-07 22:49
369Willso I can run examples with embedded images, but if you are going to make it run in core that would be great and I'll have no need for that18-Nov-07 22:48
368Oldeswhy do you want to change it in runtime?18-Nov-07 22:47
367Oldesthis places the image during compilation18-Nov-07 22:46
366Willas an exampe, in GUI_Arrows.swf there is this line: bitmaps images [alpha %gui/img/arrows.png] with what can I replace it?18-Nov-07 22:46
365OldesIf you want to change it from SWF itself, just use loadMovie18-Nov-07 22:44
364Oldesah.. you need change image from swf itself18-Nov-07 22:43
363Willthis arrow is fine, but I would need an example how to change examples where there are images that get embedded to keep them outise and load at runtime18-Nov-07 22:43
362Oldesthe compiler cou use precompiled image data which are here read/binary 22:43
361WillThat would be grat!18-Nov-07 22:42
360OldesDo you want to use this arrow or different?18-Nov-07 22:41
359OldesAs I said I can make image loader which don't use view functions18-Nov-07 22:41
358Willwho = How18-Nov-07 22:40
357Willbecause I use core which has no image support, I'd like to not embed the images, but have them loaded at tuntime, who would I do this?18-Nov-07 22:39
356Oldesif you want use different image, just change the path. Now it uses this image 22:37
355Willok found the tracer.rswf here 18:23
354WillOldes, how can I keep images external from the generated flash, for example this one ? thx!18-Nov-07 18:13
353Willcan someone with a camand flash installed, confirm if this example work please? 17:19
352WillWOW 8)18-Nov-07 17:06
351WillOldes, where can I find the tracer.swf file that is included in this example? 17:01
350WillI've putted together the missing functions in /core 2.7.5, taken from /view in the swf-in-core.r file, try this: move to the appropriate directory, then: do make-swf/save/html 16:58
349ReViewerKeep on your project Oldes! That's a very good one. As Pekr mentioned, made with Rebol, run with Adobe. That means Rebol may not even need a plugin eventually. And for the ones who think alternative solutions are not for them, ask yourself what you're doing here! You're at the wrong place! Go to MacDo and Pizza Hut, install Vista and don't forget to buy an iPhone!18-Nov-07 16:49
348WillCOOOL !! Got swf8-convolution1.swf building on /core (OSX) ! How great this is 8) thanks Oldes!18-Nov-07 16:46
347OldesThere should be also some change in image loader, but this could be done in core way anyway... this part of code is pretty old... 2002 or something like that18-Nov-07 9:58
346Oldeswhat I'm not sure is how struct! is supported in core18-Nov-07 9:57
345Oldesread-thru can be in core without problems18-Nov-07 9:56
344Oldesthere should not be zlib anymore.. it was used for decompress anyway.18-Nov-07 9:56
343PeterWoodThe windows dll called by RWSF is Zlib18-Nov-07 8:22
342PeterWoodread-thru is certainly not in core 8:22
341WillThanks for the info Peter! and read-thru is only in /view right?17-Nov-07 16:28
340PeterWoodWill: When I tried to load the latest version of RWSF under Mac OS X it failed as it calls a Windows DLL.17-Nov-07 16:02
339WillOldes: me I ask? 8)17-Nov-07 15:24
338WillPeterWood: Right, as posted in OSX group /view doesn't work in 10.5/intel17-Nov-07 15:24
337PeterWoodWill: I'm guessing that you meant a version running with /core under OS X.17-Nov-07 11:56
336Oldeswith some modifications yes... I'm not using it with Core17-Nov-07 11:27
335WillOldes, would it be possible to have a version running with /core ?17-Nov-07 5:10
334amacleodHost Environment - Open: The environment defines an operating system abstraction layer (OSAL) that can be ported to a wide range of systems, including desktop systems, set-top boxes, mobile devices, and cell phones. This approach gives developers a way to run and improve REBOL on their specific target platforms. -from same document17-Nov-07 3:40
333DanielSzto Vent?17-Nov-07 3:40
332Steevein sense that we should move from Rebol/flash dialect thread17-Nov-07 3:40
331amacleodRuntime Core - Closed: This is the OS independent kernel that provides standard REBOL capabilities across all systems and devices. It is this component that makes REBOL operate identically on Windows, OSX, Linux, BSD, Sony, Nokia, Nintendo, and other systems. -from the above document.17-Nov-07 3:39
330DanielSzIn what sense?17-Nov-07 3:39
329Steeveby the way, it's not the good place for such comments17-Nov-07 3:38
328DanielSz:)17-Nov-07 3:37
327DanielSzThe fact it's small and courageous. You side with the losers.17-Nov-07 3:37
326Steeveyeah, we are cool guys17-Nov-07 3:37
325DanielSzAnother aspect I like about Rebol is the community.17-Nov-07 3:37
324Steevei see nothing17-Nov-07 3:36
323Steevebut what else ?17-Nov-07 3:36
322Steeveyeah, a little17-Nov-07 3:36
321DanielSzAltme? You must be kidding.17-Nov-07 3:36
320DanielSzTo me, the killer aspect of Rebol is the language design. It's just very, very expressive.17-Nov-07 3:35
319amacleodA brief description of R# components and how the "hybrid-open-source model" will work: 3:35
318SteeveAtlme is that one ? not sure17-Nov-07 3:35
317Steeveit's not the only point, i'm wondering why have no killer apps17-Nov-07 3:34
316DanielSzEither you can compile from source, or you can't. You don't have to merit it by showing how eager you are, or to mark points in other ways.17-Nov-07 3:31
315Steeveor not17-Nov-07 3:30
314amacleodI think RT realize they are not going to make money on hte software but on services revolving around the product17-Nov-07 3:30
313Steevebut we need an IDE for that purpose17-Nov-07 3:30
312Steevewith frameworks conception, you can17-Nov-07 3:29
311DanielSzThe main problem of Rebol is the business model. I've seen RT struggle with this since the first versions, I don't have a solution, I don't know how you make money with open source, but some people do.17-Nov-07 3:29
310SteeveI think that if your really motivated, RT let you port Rebol on alien platforms17-Nov-07 3:27
309Steeveyeah , they steal his idea ;-)17-Nov-07 3:26
308DanielSzTo make a distribution, you need to be able to do both.17-Nov-07 3:25
307DanielSzIt's like on linux, compiling kernel modules vs. compiling the kernel itself.17-Nov-07 3:25
306amacleodAs far as I understand it R3 will allow you to port to any platform or OS. I'm sure there is an exlanation of how this is to be done.17-Nov-07 3:25
305amacleodin fact Carl supposedly spoke with the CEO of QNX shorly before they made that anousment17-Nov-07 3:23
304DanielSzParts. That's the whole point. That means I won't be able to port it on other platforms, because I need the source of the whole thing. (I'll be happy to be proven wrong).17-Nov-07 3:22
303amacleodvery similar17-Nov-07 3:22
302Steevelike QNX, same model17-Nov-07 3:22
301amacleodRT will have the main "kernal" closed and its this part that RT will develop other parts are left to the community to build17-Nov-07 3:22
300amacleodParts of R3 will be open giving the abilty to port17-Nov-07 3:21
299DanielSzIf I could port it myself, then that would mean RT is going open soure. Why haven't we heard the news?17-Nov-07 3:20
298amacleodYour other complaints are to be addressed with R3. You want to run it on a tablet, great, you will be able to port it yourself.17-Nov-07 3:14
297amacleodflash is on zero browsers until installed...I've set up machines at work for guys in the firehouse to use. Every computer there gathers so much adware/spyware/viruses that I can never keep up cleaning them. I've had to re-install windows so many times and each time I have to re-install the latest flash player. I resorted to setting up puppy linux and running off a bootable cd..(with the typical complaints about it not being windows) Anyway...rebol plug-in is easire to download than flash so what's the bigdeal. I install active-x controls all the time when I find a site that interests me and needs the control.17-Nov-07 3:10
296DanielSzIf I can throw my two cents here. Terry is right to complain, because you can feel he cares, it's not destructive criticism. Pekr is saying he's a realist, but to me he sounds more like a dreamer (no offense).Flash is a Virtual Machine that lives in the browser. Rebol is a VM that lives on several OSes. Flash VM is present on 99% of the browsers. Rebol VM is not present on browsers (plugin doesn't count because last time I tried it wouldn't install, and last version is more than a year old), and it is present on OSes of a small number of creative developers and hobbyists. If I had to develop a commercial app for the web, Flash and Flex give me extensive documentation, and a whole framework. Rebol can't compete with Adobe, and should not. Last week, I developed a GUI in Rebol and Rebgui that would have taken me four times longer in any other graphical toolkit, and I had a knack at it. But this app is for internal use. Rebol is a great language, and I would like to see it evolve as a computer language, not as a throw it all in kind of gizmo. It should go Open Source, because RT doesn't have the means to provide versions for all platforms. Where is the rebol for NetBSD? Last version is 2001. If RT hasn't the resources, let the developers do it. I want to run rebol on an internet tablet. I had wanted to run rebol on a palm (not anymore because Palm is deas, sort of). But the Nokia tablet run debian linux. There is no reason for the unabailability of rebol. It is just a matter of building it and packaging it. Who has the time for this? Plenty of people, they're just not at RT, because there people are busy with more important things (like developing the product).17-Nov-07 3:01
295james_nakCan't we just all get along and keep Oldes cranking along with his examples? : ) You guys are all great.16-Nov-07 22:42
294TerryMmm... Rebol mash.. yum.16-Nov-07 21:46
293TerryI hope it works great.. and I hope the plugin gets fixed properly... then I'll mash it in with all the rest.16-Nov-07 21:46
292PekrYes, actually we could include most of the guys here ;-)16-Nov-07 21:42
291BrockI think Terry should get a sneak peak. He appears to be, from the work he publicly shares with us, one of the most diverse Rebolers in the group. I would think his input would be of value. That's all I will say as well ;-)16-Nov-07 21:40
290Henrik"VID3 will never compete with this.. ever." <-- well.. you haven't seen VID3. :-) That's all, I'll say for now.16-Nov-07 21:38
289Pekramacleod - nice app. At least link works here ...16-Nov-07 21:31
288TerryThis is Petr's head -> O This is Petr's head in san -> :::O:::16-Nov-07 21:29
287amacleodPekr, what are you showing on that site: app.jsp16-Nov-07 21:28
286PekrPHP, gee - what does have php in common with all that?16-Nov-07 21:26
285PekrTerry, you are completly wrong here. What is so special about it? Simply nothing. Some of that stuff is slow as molasses.16-Nov-07 21:25
284TerryDon't want to spam Oldes site here, but VID3 will never compete with this.. ever. Rebols needs to get their head out of the sand. Not only can Rebol not compete now, the likes of Adobe, Google (as in Gears), Javascript, PHP etc etc are accelerating away faster than the galaxies.16-Nov-07 21:23
283Pekr 21:22
282PekrI hope VID3 is just the same, just faster :-)16-Nov-07 21:19
281PekrNice!16-Nov-07 21:19
280TerryMore flex skins here

16-Nov-07 21:11
279TerryWell, creating a swf with a single checkbox is rather impractical... but all the components can be skinned using CSS (also cool).. so you can build things like this... or this 21:07
278Oldesexample above updated with external iconset loader and with another new style: Menu16-Nov-07 16:42
277OldesIf I would like to use Flash components, I would do it. It's not difficult at all. You just have to export all the components into SWF file (more than 250kB) which I can import using my import-swf keyword in the dialect and that's it... than I could just place imported classes. But I don't want to do it. I would rather use my own. Yes... it's more difficult in the begining, but the more freedom I have when I want to do it how I like it to be.16-Nov-07 14:40
276OldesNever mind.. version 2.12.0 new example: 14:22
275Oldesand your example: The server at is taking too long to respond.16-Nov-07 14:21
274OldesI don't have MXML dialect and don't like MXML and don't like Flash default components... sorry, but If I want a chackbox. I really don't need 168kB of compressed SWF code.16-Nov-07 14:21
273PekrI downloaded Air few months ago. You would not want to see its dialog box - tottally twisted sizes of UI elements. They have to learn not to use native Windows elements, yet do it right. VID3 can outshine it with VID. Or - Oldes will integrate it, that will be even better :-) You code in REBOL, run in Adobe ;-)16-Nov-07 12:30
272PekrTerry - REBOL3 does that next to Adobe. In that area, there is no other competition for us. In fact - Adobe copies old ideas of View.16-Nov-07 12:28
271Terrymoving this to Vent16-Nov-07 11:48
270TerryAn embeded webkit browser (aka Safari)... when is Rebol doing that?16-Nov-07 11:48
269Terryer.. one more.. "At a high level, Adobe AIR accomplishes this by taking the world-class WebKit browser engine (most notably used in Safari), and wrapping it alongside Flash and PDF technologies, as a cohesive desktop runtime."16-Nov-07 11:47
268TerryOk.. enough spamming here ;)16-Nov-07 11:40
267TerryAdobe AIR beta provides additional features to enhance operating system integration:

* Background applications * System tray icon (Windows) / Dock bar bounce (Mac OS X) notification * Default windows menus * Z-order control for native windows * Bitmap drag-and-drop support * Customization of program folder entry * New Mac and Windows install location

16-Nov-07 11:40
266Terry"The Flex framework is a free, open source development framework for quickly building RIAs. These RIAs can run on Adobe Flash Player runtime in the browser or Adobe AIR can be used to deliver them to the desktop. The Flex 3 SDK beta includes all of the required tools from the Adobe AIR SDK."16-Nov-07 11:34
265TerryUsing Adobe Air, Flex code doubles as a desktop app as well, complete with it's own SQLite DB.16-Nov-07 11:30
264TerryI smell a Kommonwealth Flex IDE by the middle of next week ;)16-Nov-07 11:24
263Terry.. becomes this..

16-Nov-07 11:17
262TerryTo give you an example.. this.. <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?> <mx:Application xmlns:mx="" layout="absolute"> <mx:Panel title="My Application" width="200" height="300" x="0" y="0"> <mx:Label text="Welcome to Flex!" mouseDownEffect="WipeRight" height="45"/>

</mx:Panel> <mx:PopUpButton x="483" y="20" label="PopUpButton"/> <mx:Accordion x="441" y="50" width="200" height="200"> <mx:Canvas label="Accordion Pane 1" width="100%" height="100%"> </mx:Canvas> <mx:Canvas label="asdf" width="100%" height="100%"> </mx:Canvas> <mx:Canvas label="asdf" width="100%" height="100%"> </mx:Canvas> <mx:Canvas label="adsf" width="100%" height="100%"> </mx:Canvas> </mx:Accordion> <mx:CheckBox x="441" y="258" label="Checkbox"/> <mx:DateChooser x="238.5" y="31"/>


16-Nov-07 11:16
261TerryActually . .. that's not cool at all.

What's REALLY cool is the new adobe flex plugin for Apache... hand Apache some mxml, and it generates the .swf automatically .. Wow.

16-Nov-07 11:14
260TerryUsing rebol to call mxmlc.exe and deliver it some Rebol generated xml gives you a Flash 9 .swf file all set to go.. kinda cool.16-Nov-07 10:21
259TerryOldes, do you have a MXML dialect?16-Nov-07 9:23
258james_nakThanks Henrik, I've often wondered how to approach that.14-Nov-07 20:29
257Henrikany [value? 'something something: defaultValue]14-Nov-07 14:45
256Oldesanyway... I would rather use: UNLESS instead of IF NOT14-Nov-07 12:08
255OldesThat would lead into same bytecode. I was thinking about something else... something like: set-if-undefined something defaultValue but cannot find name for it. But because it's usually inside function, maybe I could add default value settings inside fhe func definition block. But I'm not sure now if I need it so much.14-Nov-07 12:00
254Pekrif not value? something [something: default-value]14-Nov-07 11:54

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