| # | User | Message | Date |
| 6915 | shadwolf | once again load/DLL exists for a long time but we can't says that's a widely used feature. Most because doing a bridge .R is painfull | Today 12:06 |
| 6914 | shadwolf | once the reply from officialRT plugin repository is retreived then VM rebol store the answer to not have to redo the checking on each run | Today 12:05 |
| 6913 | shadwolf | now it depends of how do we considere the rebol sharings. what about those who want to build custom "plugins" based on official other libs but with only in it what htey need and not the whole thing (like SDK allows you to customise the VMrebol version you are going to share with your application...) Like rebolinforms the user when a rebol script is accessing external data it will be first an information about the fact the script is about to load a plugin and ask for user to continue or cancel. And if the user says yes then the answer is stored by rebol (in registry for example) so in next run the user is not bothered anymore. If the user is plugin to internet then rebol could check on the offical repository if the plug is safe or not this will give the user an ensurance that the plug is safe. | Today 12:03 |
| 6912 | shadwolf | Hum I proposed long along when I was complaining about load/dll unfriendly shape to make a ported library repository wich you can find the standard libraries and the bridge to use them . the repository could be acknoleged by RT who will grant the lib is tested and safe download it and distribute is widely | Today 11:54 |
| 6911 | Brock | Could simply require confirmation on first run... when you retrieve the plugin. Then only check again when online. This wouldn't prevent the plugin from working. | Today 11:48 |
| 6910 | shadwolf | if RTmakesavailable a signature bank for trusted pluging and when rebol runs a load-plug command this function send the name of the plug + actual signature and compare it to what is stored in RT's bank but this mean offline using of plugs will be impossible | Today 5:23 |
| 6909 | shadwolf | digital signing is not the problem the problemis to whom rebol will ask a 100 % trustable footprint patern ? | Today 5:19 |
| 6908 | BrianH | Pekr, I am glad to hear that some work has been done on plugins even though the module model isn't finished. We have discussed the security issues before in the blogs and their comments. The CPU/OS problems could be partly resolved by doing some CPU/OS-independent standardization of the REBOL side of the plugin model and let the OS side take care of itself. Defines in C headers and all that. | Today 5:02 |
| 6907 | shadwolf | now in day to damge your computer you just need to log it to internet without firewall and anti-virus no even need to do anything your computer will be infected straight by a tons of worms | Today 4:41 |
| 6906 | shadwolf | after if you really want to bring a 100 % plug security you have to make the plugins centralised done only by RT and with some asymetirc key control system to ensure no one have modified the DLL betwin RT repository and the customer compurter | Today 4:36 |
| 6905 | shadwolf | Does rebol can countains 100% of all the technologies ? Does rebol will be enhanced anytime some of those manies techs are improved ? Looking to those simple fact it's obvious rebol needs external extension system. | Today 4:33 |
| 6904 | shadwolf | does because I can get a virus surfing the web i will stop surfing the web ? does because i can get virus through the maili will stop using email services ? | Today 4:31 |
| 6903 | shadwolf | DLL are black boxies you only can figure out the I/O inteface what is precisely done in the plug is impossible if you don't have access to the plug source to figure out | Today 4:24 |
| 6902 | shadwolf | security for plugin should be the same as for any fileacess no ? and once again you are not supposed to use software you didn't documented before on it. I think there is more risk to damage you computer and data by simply surfing the net with IE 7 than using rebol. | Today 4:23 |
| 6901 | Pekr | Some info from Carl from the past: The DLL access is very complicated code that is specific to every CPU and OS.The DLL access is very complicated code that is specific to every CPU and OS. The problem with plugin is not the code itself, but the security of it. If we can set security aside for a while, we can certainly have the method for it. I think it is probably ok for 3.0 to make this statement: If you want to use plugins, you can -- but, you will want to only use those from trusted sources. Do not execute unknown plugins from the web. the complex part of the security model is some method of digital signing. We could use a simple hash method, but the problem is with public/private certification. What makes it complicated is that we must port the R2 encryption code to R3. That project could take a few weeks. | Today 4:11 |
| 6900 | Pekr | Brian - it is not correct that no work was done. Carl told me few months ago, that plugins are some 80-90% done. They have forma API, they are just disabled. The plugin simply exports some info for REBOL to load and bind or something like that ... | Today 4:01 |
| 6899 | BrianH | Aside from knowing that they will be based on modules, no work has been done or published on plugins. Since even the module API is a work in progress, that means that all we have is discussions (unless Carl has been working on it in his current coding session, not as unlikely as you may think). | Thu 21:25 |
| 6898 | Dockimbel | Did Carl published any example code of how such plugin code would look like ? | Thu 21:21 |
| 6897 | BrianH | tion | Thu 21:20 |
| 6896 | BrianH | It is the intension that all of this be easier in R3. | Thu 21:20 |
| 6895 | Dockimbel | Well, in R2, you always have the option of writting a small wrapper DLL in C to interface with a complex API, if it's not possible to make a direct wrapper with only REBOL code. | Thu 21:18 |
| 6894 | BrianH | I expect that most useful wrappers will be a mix of both. | Thu 21:14 |
| 6893 | BrianH | I gather that it depends on how awful the DLL's API is. Again, in theory because we haven't done plugins yet. | Thu 21:13 |
| 6892 | Dockimbel | Does the DLL wrapper need to be written in C or REBOL ? | Thu 21:11 |
| 6891 | BrianH | It's not that different from writing a script wrapper for a DLL now, just easier and more powerful (in theory). | Thu 21:10 |
| 6890 | Dockimbel | So, do you mean that with R3 to access a DLL I have to build (in REBOL and/or C) a plugin, then dynamically load the plugin and then the plugin will load the DLL ? | Thu 21:08 |
| 6889 | BrianH | You did. R3 plugins are to be a cross between a REBOL module and a library wrapper, and can be dynamically loaded like modules. | Thu 21:03 |
| 6888 | Dockimbel | Having the plugin API is good for static linking, but dynamic linking will still be needed (unless I missed something about R3 plugins?). | Thu 21:01 |
| 6887 | BrianH | That doesn't mean we can't get started on designing a good printing dialect. | Thu 20:45 |
| 6886 | BrianH | I don't think so, as the library API is considered to be a good candidate for a complete redo as the Plugin API. | Thu 20:44 |
| 6885 | Dockimbel | Does R3 already have support for loading DLL ? | Thu 20:42 |
| 6884 | Dockimbel | (moving to Printing group) | Thu 20:40 |
| 6883 | BrianH | Once we have some sane documentation of the Windows printing model (read: the code you've written so far) it shouldn't be too hard. Not off-topis, btw: We can adapt your code to R3 and it might serve as the germination of a REBOL printing model. | Thu 20:38 |
| 6882 | Dockimbel | (sorry for being off topic) | Thu 20:36 |
| 6881 | Dockimbel | I don't plan to support Draw rotation, translation or matrix operations in the first release, but someone can add it quite easily. | Thu 20:35 |
| 6880 | Dockimbel | But as my free time is very reduced, I'll just release my lib with the scheme wrapper and let the community add layers upon that. | Thu 20:33 |
| 6879 | Dockimbel | I was thinking about adding also a few other import filters for makedoc, pdf-maker dialect and View layouts, so something like this should be possible : write printer:// layout [...] | Thu 20:32 |
| 6878 | Dockimbel | Well, as my lib use Draw dialect, you can have preview support almost for free ;-). Scaling is supported by my lib, it even has a auto-scaling default mode to workaround different printer's hardware margins. | Thu 20:28 |
| 6877 | Graham | And scaling. | Thu 20:23 |
| 6876 | Graham | Currently I use the postscript dialect and do a preview with draw, but because of the difficulties of rotations, and translations, anything that involves those screws up the screen preview. | Thu 20:23 |
| 6875 | Graham | Yep, very interesting. So, I presume that you have screen preview as well? | Thu 20:22 |
| 6874 | Henrik | dockimbel, that sounds very interesting | Thu 20:16 |
| 6873 | Dockimbel | I've just built a direct printing library for R2, Windows only. It's a wrapper on Win32 Print API, so it supports all printers. It support a subset of Draw dialect as input. I was needing it to print reports for the project I'm currently working on. It still needs some additionnal work to be released publicly (like adding a port scheme layer for more intuitive usage). | Thu 20:07 |
| 6872 | Henrik | I've worked extensively for many months with a printing system for R2 and it works, but only in conjunction with Ghostscript. It's not possible to print directly to a postscript printer unless you want to adapt your output to each single printer to work around hardware bugs. | Thu 14:29 |
| 6871 | Henrik | That's going to be very difficult unless we simply employ some form of postscript output, similar to VID. | Thu 14:28 |
| 6870 | PeterWood | On behalf of Graham: Yes as in printing to real printers. | Thu 14:24 |
| 6869 | Henrik | as in printing to physical printers? | Thu 13:14 |
| 6868 | Graham | Has anyone given any thought to what printing model R3 is going to use? | Thu 10:12 |
| 6867 | shadwolf | graham i'm kiding thank you for the explanation ^^... | Sat 3:10 |
| 6866 | Graham | the concept of freedom is another channel ! | Sat 3:10 |
| 6865 | shadwolf | cause i'm me and hum I do what please me that's what the concept of freedom is all about :P | Sat 3:09 |
| 6864 | shadwolf | ok so datas ;P | Sat 3:09 |
| 6863 | Graham | ( it's Latin ... not English ) | Sat 3:09 |
| 6862 | shadwolf | so for the text-option i like the idea but I agree that's not applyable to dynamic drawblock generation | Sat 3:08 |
| 6861 | Graham | datum = singular :) | Sat 3:08 |
| 6860 | Graham | data = plural. | Sat 3:08 |
| 6859 | shadwolf | well with 10 times less datas that's obvious | Sat 3:06 |
| 6858 | shadwolf | thank you ^^ | Sat 3:06 |
| 6857 | Graham | Much faster! | Sat 3:04 |
| 6856 | Graham | not tried yet ... busy busy busy! | Sat 2:24 |
| 6855 | shadwolf | so do you notice the change in performance graham ? | Sat 2:23 |
| 6854 | Graham | :) | Sat 2:18 |
| 6853 | shadwolf | the discution on the R3 blog about text-options allowed me to enhance my RTE line so with a dedicace to graham here is the new version. http://shadwolf.free.fr/RTE-line-Shad-06.r ^^ | Sat 2:02 |
| 6852 | btiffin | Re BDB; Found this on the cuil.com main page of a rebol search, by fluke of timing more than anything. http://www.cs.unm.edu/%7Ewhip/ Jeff Kreis' libdb interface. Works great with 2.7.6 and the freed load/library. I just had to tweak Jeff's libdb.c to use my setup and to get around that pesky incompatibilty that I blame on Gabriele now :) | 19-Aug 20:35 |
| 6851 | btiffin | Gabriele; True and a good point. (I miss RMS on the Vax). I have faith that RIF will come, and RIF will rock. | 19-Aug 18:29 |
| 6850 | BrianH | Including REBOL, I mean. | 19-Aug 17:02 |
| 6849 | BrianH | If we combine RIF, R/S and REBOL itself, we can get CouchDB in half a meg. | 19-Aug 16:52 |
| 6848 | Henrik | Pavel, I'm not sure that RIF determines the format for your data records, only for lowlevel storage on disk. Maybe I'm wrong. | 19-Aug 15:26 |
| 6847 | Gabriele | BT: BDB is incompatible across versions, so that whenever you install something that uses it it needs to install its own version; it is bigger than things like sqlite which are much more powerful; and if you need a real thing just use postgres or mysql. BDB is just infinite bloat... | 19-Aug 11:09 |
| 6846 | Pekr | Dunno what channel it was, but we were discussing possible native REBOL DB default inclusion. I could not remember one Java DB system, and now I found it, in case someone would be interested: http://www.prevayler.org/wiki/ It is Java persistent values storage. Few years ago I looked at it, they claimed it can be implemented in some hundreds of lines of code. It reminds me in-memory RebDB, I wonder if they solve concurency somehow ... | 19-Aug 8:10 |
| 6845 | Pekr | I know nothing. The only thing I know that SQLite is the tinniest and still rather functionally sufficient (complex) piece of DB code since the slice bread, cross platform. I hope we will make it a plug-in at least. But - I still want RIF. RIF as some standard aproach, upon which we can build RebolDB engine - then I don't hesitate to use one, because it will be lean and mean, and standard .... | 19-Aug 8:04 |
| 6844 | Pavel | Perhaps Pekr? ;) | 19-Aug 6:38 |
| 6843 | Pavel | It was promissed long ago, with some disscussion about associative database model right? what is current state of intention? Anybody knows? | 19-Aug 6:37 |
| 6842 | Pavel | RIF should be a kind of key-value right? | 19-Aug 6:36 |
| 6841 | Pavel | Still in 200kB like code | 19-Aug 6:35 |
| 6840 | Pavel | I'd like to hint focus on SQLite, inside it has its own key-value engine and now it has even Spatial (2 dimensional) R-tree indexes. | 19-Aug 6:34 |
| 6839 | Pavel | Why dont to say what is for, this disscussion is like arguing between it is better a car or its engine, sometimes you want to have comfort for rather complicated things let use SQL, sometimes you need only quick key-value store, let use kay-value DB (like BDB). | 19-Aug 6:33 |
| 6838 | btiffin | Not to let it leak out too too much; I'm becoming a fan of BDB. It's used by OpenCOBOL. BDB offers up access to ISAM, VSAM, lots. RIF could be based on BDB. I wouldn't want to RIF out of a SQL database. Records, fields and keys. He-man. Kaj; you posted on the other world; but yeah, CERN's Grid is LDAP, BDB. I don't care enough to risk life and limb or anything, but it would be nice if the scientist inventors got to see their work hit the consumer market somewhat pure of form and not splintered, at least once. They won't. That's what scientists get for giving their shit away I guess. Morons. :) Although is may seem like a hinderance, at least we don't have to deal with REBOL the Microsoft edition being different than REBOL the Sun edition, being different than REBOLzilla. | 19-Aug 1:21 |
| 6837 | shadwolf | humwhat is the meaning of have yet again a half almost but not quite the same LDAPsupport i thought that was the problem within rebol ? we start things and never end them | 18-Aug 23:26 |
| 6836 | Kaj | You talk SQL until the end of time, then | 18-Aug 17:17 |
| 6835 | Pekr | worse? :-) That is like refusing TCP in communication. Of course you can build your own protocol, if you wish :-) | 18-Aug 17:16 |
| 6834 | Kaj | SQL is a lot worse, even, so that doesn't sound like a good idea | 18-Aug 17:15 |
| 6833 | Pekr | There was some BDB driver in the past did by Jeff Kreis, but - we should refuse any driver with other than SQL .... I am a bit exagerrating - but why such arcane DB? | 18-Aug 17:14 |
| 6832 | Kaj | I don't, that's why I'm interested | 18-Aug 17:07 |
| 6831 | Gabriele | BDB? do you really want to hurt yourself that much? :) | 18-Aug 13:38 |
| 6830 | Kaj | What grid uses LDAP and Berkeley DB? | 18-Aug 2:36 |
| 6829 | Henrik | whatever is easy | 17-Aug 20:11 |
| 6828 | Pekr | wouldn't it be good to get pop3, imap, smtp and ftp back to work first? | 17-Aug 20:09 |
| 6827 | Henrik | not a small task means we need to divide it into many small steps | 17-Aug 19:13 |
| 6826 | btiffin | We'll need access to Berkeley DB too, (if the Grid stays in the current shape it is) so a good reason to link to libdb for RIF. For LDAP, I think the protocol should be in a REBOL scheme. But as stated, it's not a small task. And for the Grid, we'll need certificate handlers, and encryption ports will work nicely for that. With those three pieces, I think we'd be ready to introduce ourselves to the CERN LCG and VDT people (Assuming they didn't shoot down the idea off hand due to not Open Source) In which case we'd have to live outside the inner grid and float about the consumer grid. No science apps would need apply, but the consumer grid could be a lucrative next step. Maybe. | 17-Aug 18:26 |
| 6825 | Henrik | I think also that whatever is made, should be documented in a cookbook recipe. | 17-Aug 18:08 |
| 6824 | Henrik | well, what are we waiting for? :-) what would be the best approach to an LDAP client? (or what one calls it) | 17-Aug 18:01 |
| 6823 | btiffin | REBOL will need LDAP if it wants to play in the Grid. Web 3.0? Skip it for LCG maybe. Official VDT development tools for the Grid are still pretty limited; C, C++. Python, Java, Tcl; not many others. We could play in this arena I think., but it'll require a fair amount ot back-filling to get to spec. But will the grid ever hit consumer level? I think so ... but maybe not. | 17-Aug 17:55 |
| 6822 | Kaj | It does have a performance advantage, because it scales fairly well | 17-Aug 17:16 |
| 6821 | Kaj | The same functionality in REBOL wouldn't amount to much, because it's fundamental, but LDAP suffers from being implemented with classic technology | 17-Aug 17:16 |
| 6820 | Kaj | LDAP is really a database, for which you can define your own schema. The complexity is closer to a relational database than a basic Internet protocol | 17-Aug 17:14 |
| 6819 | Henrik | It's funny though. When I think of something like a name directory, I wouldn't build such a complex system that fits everyone and everything, which makes it hard to support. I guess it comes with being used to working with REBOL for a long time, where I usually cook up custom solutions for each problem. | 17-Aug 17:13 |
| 6818 | Henrik | yeah, that must be it. | 17-Aug 17:11 |
| 6817 | Kaj | I think this is why LDAP is still a missing protocol for REBOL | 17-Aug 17:09 |
| 6816 | Kaj | Oh, they can complicate anything :-) | 17-Aug 17:09 |
| 6815 | Henrik | I mentioned LDAP because I naively thought it meant "a table of names and addresses", which I thought it can't be that hard to make. :-) | 17-Aug 17:08 |
| 6814 | Kaj | Yep | 17-Aug 17:08 |
| 6813 | Henrik | I guess LDAP could be considered lightweight compared to its own predecessors. | 17-Aug 17:07 |
| 6812 | Kaj | REBOL thinks it's it, but I would point you to Adam Dunkel's operating system for sensors | 17-Aug 17:04 |
| 6811 | Kaj | But you're touching on a fundamental problem there. It's impossible to explain to people what lightweight is, because everyone thinks they're it | 17-Aug 17:01 |
| 6810 | Henrik | Kaj, I see. | 17-Aug 16:59 |
| 6809 | Kaj | Same way XML is the "lightweight" version of SGML | 17-Aug 16:59 |
| 6808 | Kaj | Henrik, LDAP is the lightweight reincarnation of X.500 (or X.400, I forget all the labels), a really heavyweight directory specification from the height of industrial age centralised organisations | 17-Aug 16:58 |
| 6807 | Henrik | Depending also on Gabriele's motivation and circumstances, VID3 development might continue if VID3.4 is very different from VID3. So far no more details yet. | 17-Aug 16:54 |
| 6806 | amacleod | vid is being re-written by Carl. We're all waiting to see the result. I would not delve too deeply into the current vid as the new version (3.4) is likely to have quite different functionality. | 17-Aug 15:35 |
| 6805 | BrettH | So I can't make any data-entry type forms yet ! When is Tab/Shigt Tab expected to be implemented ? Thanks | 17-Aug 15:20 |
| 6804 | Henrik | There's no secret keystroke as tabbing has not yet been implemented in VID3. | 17-Aug 14:36 |
| 6803 | BrettH | Having a play with REBOL3, and after modifying the sliding cat example to display data entry areas
instead in the scroll-panel, I find that I cannot move to the 'next' field either by using TAB or CR What the 'secret' keystroke required ??? ;; =============================== rebol ["field-scroller.r"] view [ h1 "Modified Scrolling (SCROLL-PANEL and SCROLLER)" group 2 [ tight bottom right ; stick the panel to the scrollers scroll-panel 150x200 [ datain: group 2 [ label "fld 1 " area fld1: label "fld 2 " area fld2: label "fld 11 " area fld1: label "fld 21 " area fld2: label "fld 12 " area fld1: label "fld 22 " area fld2: label "fld 13 " area fld1: label "fld 23 " area fld2: label "fld 14 " area fld1: label "fld 24 " area fld2: ] ] tight only bottom right scroller 20x200 attach ; attach scroller and scroll-panel tight only top right scroller 150x20 attach -3 ; attach with scroll-panel ] ] ;;================================================= | 17-Aug 14:34 |
| 6802 | Henrik | "Lightweight"? :-) | 16-Aug 19:16 |
| 6801 | Henrik | I just realized, yes it's quite complicated. :-) | 16-Aug 19:16 |
| 6800 | Kaj | Even if it were just read-only at first | 16-Aug 19:04 |
| 6799 | Kaj | The full feature set of LDAP is quite complicated, but I think a basic interface would already help a lot | 16-Aug 19:03 |
| 6798 | Henrik | (I know next to nothing about LDAP, so 4-5 kb of code may be ludicrous) | 16-Aug 8:59 |
| 6797 | Henrik | It would helpful if there were some community driven projects for designing R3 protocols. This is something that Carl doesn't need to be involved in until final inspection to see if it can be added as standard to R3. Although it's been said by Carl that he would change the TCP ports a bit as they were found to be too simple, I don't think it would be much of a hindrance to work on simpler protocols. I wouldn't mind seeing out of the box support for LDAP, if it can be done in 4-5 kb of code. I know DICT is being worked on. | 16-Aug 8:56 |
| 6796 | Mchean | yep very quiet | 15-Aug 23:13 |
| 6795 | Graham | perhaps something has been brewing in the vats? | 15-Aug 2:05 |
| 6794 | PeterWood | No Rebol3 Frontline blog entry for 57 days No Rebol3 updates to Docbase for 70 days Grape picking season approaching | 15-Aug 0:14 |
| 6793 | shadwolf | http://shadwolf.free.fr/RTE-line-Shad-05.r | 10-Aug 21:02 |
| 6792 | shadwolf | some more evolutions http://shadwolf.free.fr/RTE-line-Shad05.r this version gets some bugs corrections, no active probe and the handling of the del. key | 10-Aug 19:09 |
| 6791 | shadwolf | in multiline statement the most problematical issue is to deal with the multilne text selection and to deal with the text wraping | 10-Aug 3:35 |
| 6790 | shadwolf | and i need to find a good way to handle multiline fonctionalities | 10-Aug 3:34 |
| 6789 | shadwolf | so my idea to speed the search process instead of having to use foreach loops would be to convert my list into an hash table like data structure using the postions as index | 10-Aug 3:33 |
| 6788 | shadwolf | i use as "index" for my seachies into the list the offset position of each char displayed | 10-Aug 3:31 |
| 6787 | shadwolf | a way to reduce the data scheme will be to hum encode them into a fixed size string for example a12black for arial black 12 pt char instead of storing for each char the corresponding values as splited thing | 10-Aug 3:30 |
| 6786 | shadwolf | so with the actual way to handle the data each char haves it's own position and format stored that enhance alot the précision and the posibilities but the side effect is to have to handle much more data | 10-Aug 3:26 |
| 6785 | shadwolf | on my previous intent i was handeling the text as a subdivision of same way formated strings of char and that was a pain then to get a precise text cursor motion and to insert new chars into an already existing and formated string | 10-Aug 3:24 |
| 6784 | shadwolf | I will think in a better data scheme too because the way it's designed it's not to handle big text amount anyway ... | 10-Aug 3:11 |
| 6783 | shadwolf | hum but it's fast on my computer and that's a pre-alpha double dash ++ X 2008 version (that's way there is the probes) If I go enough far in the process obviously I will do a clean share. That's just to show wich direction it takes and puts some animation here while we are pending for news from R3 ^^. I plan even to declinate it to wrok with rebGUI and do a synntaxe colored widget wich could be used for an IDE for example | 10-Aug 3:08 |
| 6782 | Edgar | This demo is cool. I think you just need to replace probe with an empty function or comment it out so it runs as fast as it can. | 9-Aug 17:56 |
| 6781 | shadwolf | http://shadwolf.free.fr/RTE-line-Shad-04.r | 9-Aug 7:10 |
| 6780 | shadwolf | cursor motion with mouse actionh ttp://shadwolf.free.fr/RTE-line-Shad-04.r | 9-Aug 6:57 |
| 6779 | shadwolf | the formula I use in the patch is (font-size of the last entry in the char table / 2) -1 | 9-Aug 3:44 |
| 6778 | shadwolf | ok i made a quick patch for the bug graham noticed to me ( the right arrow not going on the right side of the last char) you can find the new version here http://shadwolf.free.fr/RTE-line-Shad-03.r | 9-Aug 3:40 |
| 6777 | shadwolf | if after that rebol is not the main big computing thing I really change my professsion to anything else ... | 9-Aug 1:53 |
| 6776 | shadwolf | REbol3 the language that really talks to you and really love you ^^ | 9-Aug 1:52 |
| 6775 | shadwolf | remove a [b] == remove process done [b] have been removed from the list a. Have a nice day shadwolf you know you really rock !!! probe a == the list a contains [[a][c]] have a good day shadwolf you still rock you know i love you .... That's would be the best ^^ | 9-Aug 1:50 |
| 6774 | shadwolf | remove that means the passed argument is delete from the list and nothing else | 9-Aug 1:22 |
| 6773 | shadwolf | but way [a] is gone and why [b] is still here .... | 9-Aug 1:22 |
| 6772 | shadwolf | example: >> a: [[a][b][c]] remove a [b] == [b] >> probe a [[b] [c]] == [[b] [c]] | 9-Aug 1:21 |
| 6771 | shadwolf | remove don't work the way it should be too ... that force me to do a foreach loop and that's slowing the delet process | 9-Aug 1:19 |
| 6770 | shadwolf | and more i need to find a good equation to remplace the damn switch for cursor motion | 9-Aug 1:17 |
| 6769 | shadwolf | i need to implement so more things to get a complete multi line rte that's giving me a head hach | 9-Aug 1:17 |
| 6768 | shadwolf | like: rte-face/selected-text rte-face/sel-start rte-face/sel-end | 9-Aug 1:15 |
| 6767 | shadwolf | but I think I will set an internal var where you can find selected text and 2 other internals var with offset start and end of the selection | 9-Aug 1:14 |
| 6766 | shadwolf | but text selection in my RTE-line project will makes me face the same dilema | 9-Aug 1:13 |
| 6765 | shadwolf | yes .... but that's a pitty because it's really open and powerfull | 9-Aug 1:12 |
| 6764 | Graham | It's an unfinished opus | 9-Aug 1:11 |
| 6763 | Graham | Yes, that is the problem | 9-Aug 1:11 |
| 6762 | shadwolf | for vid what I like the most in most ofen case is not to have to write 1000 lines to display a button and what I hate is to have to write 10000 when i want to do exotic faces ^^ | 9-Aug 1:11 |
| 6761 | Graham | I test every word ... makes me slower | 9-Aug 1:09 |
| 6760 | shadwolf | hum GRaham hum that's cause i didn't drink anything .... my neural activity is too slow i need to test every single line to be sure i'm not missing something | 9-Aug 1:09 |
| 6759 | Graham | the drunken master isn't drunk! He's just pretending... | 9-Aug 1:08 |
| 6758 | shadwolf | after the drunken master the drunken coder like in kung-fu in coding the more you drink the best you are ^^ | 9-Aug 1:07 |
| 6757 | Graham | maybe that's why your demo seems fast enough?? | 9-Aug 1:07 |
| 6756 | shadwolf | well ... most of my best achievement where done in drunk stage .... So keep going on Carl ^^ | 9-Aug 1:06 |
| 6755 | Graham | text handling is so basic and old | 9-Aug 1:06 |
| 6754 | shadwolf | hum I vote for the 3rd forget the damn carret and find something better :P | 9-Aug 1:06 |
| 6753 | Graham | or, he's drinking too much wine ... not sure | 9-Aug 1:05 |
| 6752 | Graham | He's in deep think mode | 9-Aug 1:05 |
| 6751 | shadwolf | I reaaaaaaaaaaaally appreciate if carl find us a better way to deal with selections (I remember when I developed MDP-GUI that to add the flag around a selected bounch of text that was all a pain in my poor brain...) | 9-Aug 1:05 |
| 6750 | Graham | ie. whether text faces should share the same caret object, or each should have their own. I voted for the latter. | 9-Aug 1:03 |
| 6749 | shadwolf | caret is ugly .... caret to offset is bad for my health | 9-Aug 1:03 |
| 6748 | Graham | no ... Carl asked a few questions about carets and then hid again. | 9-Aug 1:02 |
| 6747 | shadwolf | one more week without news and I send a navy seal squad to Sasanrath Ranch to figure out ... | 9-Aug 1:02 |
| 6746 | shadwolf | graham any news from carl and R3 ??? | 9-Aug 1:00 |
| 6745 | Graham | I have Suse, Puppy, Ubuntu, and DSL installed :) | 9-Aug 1:00 |
| 6744 | shadwolf | ubuntu is fun ^^ | 9-Aug 1:00 |
| 6743 | shadwolf | no need to be politecnician to do that (polutechnic the equivalent of the M.I.T in france) | 9-Aug 0:58 |
| 6742 | Graham | I have ubuntu on my laptop already | 9-Aug 0:58 |
| 6741 | shadwolf | ubuntu will save us all dl live-cd iso brun iso restart computer with the new CD in it and VOILA :P | 9-Aug 0:58 |
| 6740 | Graham | Bit hard to ask everyone to install linux instead of windows just to run your demo :) | 9-Aug 0:56 |
| 6739 | shadwolf | your application is running around 3 times slower than on my computer (I dream of a quad core phenom based computer ...) | 9-Aug 0:56 |
| 6738 | Graham | sorry ... I was just kidding again. | 9-Aug 0:56 |
| 6737 | shadwolf | maybe you need to trash that ugly VISTA and install linux :P | 9-Aug 0:56 |
| 6736 | shadwolf | well for the momment that's not the time for optimisation .... | 9-Aug 0:55 |
| 6735 | Graham | maybe i need both cores working?? | 9-Aug 0:55 |
| 6734 | shadwolf | k but rally that's slower than on my computer ... | 9-Aug 0:54 |
| 6733 | shadwolf | (Kids don't try this at home that don't work ...) | 9-Aug 0:54 |
| 6732 | shadwolf | even if you print the script and smoke it after that will not bring you a join ... (I think ... not sure ...) | 9-Aug 0:53 |
| 6731 | shadwolf | yes joy | 9-Aug 0:52 |
| 6730 | Graham | Joy not join?? | 9-Aug 0:52 |
| 6729 | shadwolf | but but but buuuuuuuuuuuut buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut buuuuuuuuuuuuut that's a work in progress to bring join and hope to this world ;P | 9-Aug 0:51 |
| 6728 | Graham | stop dumping to console with every keypress! | 9-Aug 0:50 |
| 6727 | shadwolf | anyway that's strange ... | 9-Aug 0:50 |
| 6726 | Graham | My view apps run fine! | 9-Aug 0:50 |
| 6725 | Graham | other view apps run fine .... | 9-Aug 0:49 |
| 6724 | shadwolf | I HATE VISTA AND I DON'T DO ANY VISTA FRIENDLY REBOL SCRIPTS :P | 9-Aug 0:49 |
| 6723 | shadwolf | hum if the VISTA is taking you 60 percent of the memory and the CPU that's obvious lol | 9-Aug 0:49 |
| 6722 | Graham | Vista windows experience 2.2 | 9-Aug 0:48 |
| 6721 | Graham | T2350 @ 1.86Ghz with 1.5Gb ram | 9-Aug 0:48 |
| 6720 | shadwolf | sorry for spannish noone deserves to be compared to VISTA ... | 9-Aug 0:47 |
| 6719 | shadwolf | you have the spanish dancing windows ? (VISTA ?) | 9-Aug 0:47 |
| 6718 | shadwolf | yes ... that's SLOW ... and on my computer that's not so slow ... | 9-Aug 0:46 |
| 6717 | Graham | quick video of my experience for you :) | 9-Aug 0:45 |
| 6716 | Graham | http://screencast.com/t/eyB2Pmfmv | 9-Aug 0:45 |
| 6715 | shadwolf | well anyway that's to make people dream show that the impossible is possible and enhance my skills too ^^ | 9-Aug 0:44 |
| 6714 | shadwolf | even with all the consol traps | 9-Aug 0:43 |
| 6713 | shadwolf | using reb/view 2.7 | 9-Aug 0:41 |
| 6712 | shadwolf | hum .... that's strange i don't have it slow at all | 9-Aug 0:41 |
| 6711 | Graham | and it's very slow. | 9-Aug 0:40 |
| 6710 | Graham | Jk .. I have core duo laptop | 9-Aug 0:40 |
| 6709 | Graham | I think it's because you're dumping everything to the console | 9-Aug 0:39 |
| 6708 | shadwolf | on my AMD X2 3.8 GHz that's smooth really | 9-Aug 0:39 |
| 6707 | shadwolf | ...... 286 OMG !!! that's a museum piece ... | 9-Aug 0:38 |
| 6706 | Graham | this is on my IBM AT 286 | 9-Aug 0:38 |
| 6705 | shadwolf | ouai that's a little bug but hum I don't see it slow really .... | 9-Aug 0:38 |
| 6704 | Graham | also, if you use the arrow left you can't type again at the end. | 9-Aug 0:37 |
| 6703 | Graham | yes, the typing. | 9-Aug 0:37 |
| 6702 | shadwolf | on my Crey C-90 that's smoothy :P | 9-Aug 0:36 |
| 6701 | shadwolf | slow ? | 9-Aug 0:36 |
| 6700 | Graham | the right arrow won't go past the last character | 9-Aug 0:35 |
| 6699 | Graham | it's very slow! | 9-Aug 0:34 |
| 6698 | shadwolf | (side note don't look the source code it's ugly ....) | 9-Aug 0:11 |
| 6697 | shadwolf | and ofcourse formated text insertion | 9-Aug 0:08 |
| 6696 | shadwolf | enjoy folks (more to come later that's only a 2 day work yes lot more things are to be done what works the keyboard arrow left and right the backspace ) | 9-Aug 0:07 |
| 6695 | shadwolf | still no news from rebol3 so i propose you this work of mine to entertain you ^^ http://shadwolf.free.fr/RTE-line-Shad-03.r | 9-Aug 0:05 |
| 6694 | Henrik | we have no such details yet | 6-Aug 7:18 |
| 6693 | shadwolf | VID new name suggestion of the day by shadwolf VooDoo ( Visual object oooooh Display objects oooooooh ) | 6-Aug 0:38 |
| 6692 | shadwolf | but does a panel be transparent ? | 6-Aug 0:36 |
| 6691 | Henrik | nope | 5-Aug 20:04 |
| 6690 | shadwolf | so any news regarding the announced specs ? | 5-Aug 19:53 |
| 6689 | shadwolf | henrik T____________________________T (/cry) | 3-Aug 19:52 |
| 6688 | Chris | A little funny for those familiar with Jesse's diets : ) | 1-Aug 1:34 |
| 6687 | Henrik | "this week I'll begin writing a lot more about the concepts...", which means it'll probably be ready in a couple of months. :-) | 30-Jul 20:26 |
| 6686 | Graham | Carl "Yes, I have had the GUI running for some time..." | 29-Jul 1:27 |
| 6685 | Graham | Carl "Yes, this week I'll begin writing a lot more about the concepts, and provide examples, screenshots, and a diagram or two." | 29-Jul 1:27 |
| 6684 | Graham | Carl "A PANEL is a group of FACES, each of which are of a STYLE" = Vid3.4 | 29-Jul 1:27 |
| 6683 | Louis | Thanks, Brian. | 27-Jul 13:49 |
| 6682 | BrianH | This is all an informed guess though :( | 26-Jul 2:16 |
| 6681 | BrianH | So to answer Louis' question: Not yet, as far as we know. The data structures for Unicode strings are there, as are UTF-8 word! values, but binary encoding and decoding is not yet there, and there are some limts to Unicode input and output (mostly due to the Windows console). The encoding/decoding work seems likely to get done as a part of Carl's GUI work, as that will probably include text display. The console IO limits are likely to remain until the written-in-REBOL GUI console is adopted. | 26-Jul 2:15 |
| 6680 | BrianH | For that matter, I recall that there was some talk of changing the SAVE and LOAD functions completely. It is an unresolved design issue, unless Carl's current work includes string encoding and decoding as well. | 26-Jul 1:08 |
| 6679 | BrianH | That bug can't be fixed without the string-to-binary encoding and decoding infrastructure being there. Those native functions don't exist yet because their design is not finalized. | 26-Jul 1:06 |
| 6678 | BrianH | I'll check. Thanks for the heads-up. | 26-Jul 1:00 |
| 6677 | Henrik | BrianH, well I guess I counted indirect changes in. If you look at the latest bugs, some mezzanines still expect non-binary input for WRITE and non-binary output for READ. | 25-Jul 20:49 |
| 6676 | BrianH | If anyone else knows of specific bugs in the mezzanines that relate to Unicode, please bring them up here or in the applicable forums. | 25-Jul 20:06 |
| 6675 | BrianH | I am not aware of any bugs in the mezzanines relative to Unicode, but there are a few in the natives. Overall the code could use a conceptual audit for Unicode compatibility, though a great deal of this has been done already. | 25-Jul 20:02 |
| 6674 | Louis | I figured unicode support would be very complex, but I think now that it was even more complex than I thought. It will be very helpful to me. Thanks for the info, Henrik! | 25-Jul 15:40 |
| 6673 | Henrik | unicode has changed many things on a basic level. this affects some mezzanines which need to be fixed. | 25-Jul 15:28 |
| 6672 | Henrik | it's implemented, although there are still compatibility bugs left some places. | 25-Jul 15:27 |
| 6671 | Louis | Is unicode support finished? | 25-Jul 15:08 |
| 6670 | Louis | Henrik, many thanks for the blog links. Very interesting. | 25-Jul 15:06 |
| 6669 | Henrik | Louis: http://www.hmkdesign.dk/rebol/files/90e3407319954c2fb00e1665fdbd0e22-128.html http://www.hmkdesign.dk/rebol/files/2d1fc42665bf4b0db081b79d236a3b38-129.html | 25-Jul 6:45 |
| 6668 | ICarii | usable but not complete | 25-Jul 6:44 |
| 6667 | Louis | What is the status of REBOL3 right now? | 25-Jul 5:23 |
| 6666 | BrianH | Collaboration and community development is a goal of DevBase. | 25-Jul 2:47 |
| 6665 | Paul | Chris, I think the thing we lack in REBOL is that we don't have any collaborations really. What I mean is the partnering of each others products and putting them out as a solution. Think of QM and TRETBASE or some other product and then maybe that powering Henriks forum just to give you an idea. | 24-Jul 22:11 |
| 6664 | Chris | My goal with QM is to deliver a high-level entry point for developing web applications (and a fledgling sister project in app development) that gets you started quickly, reduces the quirk quotient, structures the environment, and is above all expressive. I see this as the hook. Depth comes with initial success... | 24-Jul 17:27 |
| 6663 | Chris | Sw: I guess you see an IDE as having some built-in collaboration tools (as per #4)? #3 -- Rebollers, for some reason, have a very hard time using someone else's code -- that's part of why it's difficult to establish a repository. Perhaps an IDE would bridge this as it would allow developers to bring in 'modules' seemlessly? #1 -- look at Ruby and Rails for a language/framework that is successful in spite of IDE availability. They use that language as a strength and rely on the quality of 3rd party editors (TextMate?) to make it accessible. Not to mention immediate availability within all but Windows OS (sigh) | 24-Jul 17:22 |
| 6662 | Paul | I have no intention at this time, thats for sure. | 24-Jul 16:15 |
| 6661 | Henrik | I would not start working on an R3 IDE until R3 is feature stable (sometime around beta release). R3 contains in its current version more debugging and profiling functions than the public alpha and there might be more to come. It could be that Carl sees a good direction for an IDE at some point. | 24-Jul 16:11 |
| 6660 | Paul | Thanks for the info Shadwolf. I see your frustration and noticed some of those projects over the years. | 24-Jul 16:06 |
| 6659 | shadwolf | but the IDE is an IDE in rebol to do rebol software.... But why an IDE in rebol ??? Well for a lot of reason 1) promotion purpose .... Rebol don't need anything else than rebol to do his dev tools ... and if we can do dev tools as sharp as you can see it with rebol that means rebol can do alot for your company too. 2) cause rebol is what we are doing here ^^... Other language are other languages More rebol to save the people ^^.... 3) because who knows better what we need and what we want than us maybe the strongest and the first to believe in rebol 4) because IDE in rebol can make us share the code and work together on a base project where anyone will apport his ideas tries and that's what is a community all about doing there own project on their sides sharing informations and experiencies and gathering around hudge project or mendatory projects ( like rebgui ^^) | 24-Jul 15:24 |
| 6658 | shadwolf | I don't want to start programming an IDE if at the end of the year I have to redo all the work because rebol3 is realeased and I have to change the whole IDE | 24-Jul 15:18 |
| 6657 | shadwolf | for IDE that's too an old dream of us pending to the lack of often release .... | 24-Jul 15:17 |
| 6656 | shadwolf | c | 24-Jul 15:16 |
| 6655 | shadwolf | so as all limitations can be bypassed why keeping them ? I prefere franckly the way blender claim mommey they have a preoject they do the bill then they publish on their web sites "OK guys we want to intruce this new feature it will cost us that monney we open donation if you donate alot you will get prizes (t-shirtt, cd with advanced tutorials, mugs etc...) and that system works well plus contributors feel they really are guest and participating activly on the blender project advancement that's in my opinion lot more dynami | 24-Jul 15:16 |
| 6654 | shadwolf | for DLL we openned it by doing C servers and make rebol scripts sending commands to those servers wich is what rebol is all about (messaging system) | 24-Jul 15:10 |
| 6653 | shadwolf | sql:// have been opened by mysql-protocol so the limitation to access odbc:// was not working neither | 24-Jul 15:09 |
| 6652 | shadwolf | I don't think he can make money from R3. R2 has specific barriers that prevent you from implementing specific things in the free version. Those barriers are gone in R3. ---> Was true on the earlier version but as more ppl using it more way to bypass the limitations on free version have been found (using a C server to implements callback to a library overide all those limitations 4 years ago I told Carl those limitations where just futile they can slowing down the developpement nothing more...) examples: calling a .Exe file was bypassed first by the browse/ set-browser command wich lead me to co write the first free rebol WM packager a clone to a SDK (not as sharp) but witch was able to package in a .exe file a VM script and related datas (dependencies (iimages etc...). That project was grebox. and then It was obvious to allow free version to use call function. | 24-Jul 15:07 |
| 6651 | shadwolf | paul all the other asks you do i'm doing them since 4 years now ^^ ... | 24-Jul 14:59 |
| 6650 | shadwolf | Paul tjat's an ask I do to myself often rebol have to stay for the futur generations ... | 24-Jul 14:57 |
| 6649 | shadwolf | Will R3 be open source in some fashion? For example if Carl were to retire or expire, would the language remain viable or would the evolution of operating systems make it obsolete. | 24-Jul 14:56 |
| 6648 | Henrik | I have it too. | 24-Jul 13:41 |
| 6647 | Paul | I see. I know I currently have the R2 SDK. | 24-Jul 13:40 |
| 6646 | Henrik | I don't know yet. Other than encappers, hopefully an IDE or advanced debugger. It's stated on the rebol.com site that an IDE would have to be done in cooperation with a third party (us!). :-) | 24-Jul 13:40 |
| 6645 | Paul | What would be included in the R3 SDK? | 24-Jul 13:37 |
| 6644 | Henrik | forgot the SDK... that must have made a few $ as well. I don't think that will be free for R3. | 24-Jul 13:37 |
| 6643 | Henrik | My take on it is that REBOL/IOS made more money than R2 did. It's just well-known that a lot of people didn't like paying for essential features like better security algorithms, ODBC or DLL access (DLL is now free in R2 though). When that is the case, it's easier to just flip over to an open source language like Python which do these things for free. I also know that RT is wanting to build apps based on REBOL, and not just sell REBOL itself. | 24-Jul 13:36 |
| 6642 | Paul | I'll guess I'll hang on for a bit longer. | 24-Jul 13:32 |
| 6641 | Henrik | I don't think he can make money from R3. R2 has specific barriers that prevent you from implementing specific things in the free version. Those barriers are gone in R3. | 24-Jul 13:31 |
| 6640 | Paul | So Carl doesn't need to make money from R3? | 24-Jul 13:29 |
| 6639 | Henrik | See 4. :-) | 24-Jul 13:28 |
| 6638 | Paul | Then how is RT to make any money $$$? | 24-Jul 13:27 |
| 6637 | Henrik | 1. There is a clause that makes sure the code will be opened or transfered to a different instance in case of RT's demise, but I'm not exactly sure on which circumstances it counts. 2. You should be able to access drivers directly, anything that fits with R3's device model. See http://www.rebol.net/r3blogs/0087.html 3. See 2. 4. Products built on top of R3. R3 itself will be free as in beer. | 24-Jul 13:27 |
| 6636 | Paul | A few questions I have about R3: Will R3 be open source in some fashion? For example if Carl were to retire or expire, would the language remain viable or would the evolution of operating systems make it obsolete. Will R3 be capable to access low level hardware? For example, will I be able to read sections of a hard drive directly? Will R3 enable me to send ICMP packets over the network? What is the primary revenue source for RT expected to be from the production of R3? Is is the software alone or some other licensing models? I'm sure I'll have other questions but curious of these for now as I contemplate the future of my programming skills. | 24-Jul 13:21 |
| 6635 | shadwolf | hum so lets imagine due to the few information how a VID "page" will be page [ <button text="my text on the button" action: [ some-callback] bgcolor: red fgcolor: pink size:100x50 position: 0x0 > | 22-Jul 12:17 |
| 6634 | shadwolf | We need more information on what Carl is cooking ... | 22-Jul 8:11 |
| 6633 | shadwolf | you could do transparent buttons (hum that's partly false you can do that if you draw your button using AGG then you use mouse position when left clic is done to simulate the reaction of your button) or windows | 22-Jul 7:57 |
| 6632 | shadwolf | buton the other hand none of those libraries could go further than what was VID engine capable of the events where still the same and still handle the same way for example. If you wanted to do a rich text area you will have to deal with that | 22-Jul 7:53 |
| 6631 | shadwolf | but that take us back to the main ask do we want a rebolvm that we can extend and make code over or do we want a monolitic VM where you can't do any extend. I like VID becaus it was enough flexible to allow rebGUI and other VID based library to be done. | 22-Jul 7:50 |
| 6630 | shadwolf | VID was already simple in comparasion to what are the other libraries I don't know if you ever tryed to deal with transparencies with raw X llibrary that pain in the head number 1 ^^. Well i'm not against simplifying the system but first how does the industry shape their GUI 99.9 percent of the time the GUI is build using a GUI designer and the only thing you have to do is set thru the GUI designer interface the settings for the widgets you graphically picked and organised then you have to write the call back code... Then to take your example back with the hyperlink people then don't code they only format text en even then most of now in days forum like PHP BB use javascripted/pugined rich text area to format their text you push a button it insert the text the way you want. and some of them on the php engine level are able to recognize http:// footage to build on the fly the hyperlink without requiering any tag adding by the user .... I'm not sure separating the way you organise the widget to the way you configure them will lead us to more easy way | 22-Jul 7:36 |
| 6629 | Henrik | "a stronger link betwin "networking" and "visual" modules ??? hum that's like if Carl was preteneding we can't already do that !!??" I haven't mentioned this, because I was afraid I would get it wrong and Carl would bash me for it. :-) What I'm writing here below is one of the reasons to switch to a webbrowser mentality. It was also one of the the reasons for dumping VID3. Webbrowser mentality helps building infrastructure, very quickly. There is allegedly a stronger link now between VID and networking in the same way as there is a link between HTML and HTTP. When you create a link in a webpage, it takes only a few tags in one line of code (even inline) to do that. You don't do anything else but provide the link. The browser takes care of the rest, and you can build an entire infrastructure with hyperlinks. You don't have to worry about TCP ports or wait for acknowledge from the server. The basic philosophy that goes behind hyperlinking is its extreme simplicity, which is why it's so widespread. It's easy to grasp and easy to code. When you for example write in a forum, you are often capable of providing hyperlinks. As a result, hyperlinking is available to any users, who have just the basic knowledge of coding, which to them is "typing funny chars to make a link". Carl wants the same thing in VID3.4, where you must currently work with ports, store things in words and do something with the words in order to get where you need to go. You need to do some programming and make complex decisions. That level of detail must not go away of course, but there is a simplifying element that's missing, and that is to use buttons directly as hyperlinks. If successful, anyone could code simple VID GUIs. I'm still sure I'm getting it a bit wrong, so there's not much point discussing it right now. He emphasized very strongly about building infrastructure through very simple methods that most people can understand and use. He talked about this more than about VID itself. | 22-Jul 7:03 |
| 6628 | shadwolf | well with vID2 we done a MDP Makedoc renderer so doing HTML one is not so hard with actual VID but the fact is MD GUI and MDP GUI gots a big lack of widgets for the none document rendering part wich I will call the IHM (menu bars, tab-panels, ability to resize easyly the whole content or part of it and that what lead us to do rebGUI ... to enhance that aspect.) | 22-Jul 6:45 |
| 6627 | Henrik | I get the feeling that Carl wants VID3.4 to be just right, so it takes a little time to do. The point in the webbrowser form factor is to provide a more recognizable launcher. I don't think the idea is to compete with existing webbrowsers at all. We don't even know if it will be capable of displaying HTML webpages. | 22-Jul 6:39 |
| 6626 | shadwolf | the font set is short too you can''t use any font you want and as the .fnt file community is really inventiv we are missing something | 22-Jul 5:34 |
| 6625 | shadwolf | etc ... | 22-Jul 5:33 |
| 6624 | shadwolf | like H1 H2 H3 H4 area button radio | 22-Jul 5:33 |
| 6623 | shadwolf | well after a deep reflection VID2 widgets set was already to reflect the kind of widget you can renderize in HTML | 22-Jul 5:32 |
| 6622 | shadwolf | for example opera webbrowser functionnalities: It render HTML content (some times with some strange bug), you have voice speech sinthesis to read the content of a page for blind people for example you have voice command system to operate it, you have widgets (external kind of mini GUI sofware pieces to show you web information on an extend way) you have a plugin system with lot of plugings you can use P2P bitorrent to download you can connect to IRC read your mails ... So yes now in day web browser are not only web browser and that's a matter of fact this evolution took 10 years of constent apports I don't see rebol going this way in only a couple of month ... | 22-Jul 4:32 |
| 6621 | Graham | And yes, it's all Carl's fault. | 22-Jul 4:25 |
| 6620 | Graham | I take it you're venting some frustrations ... but we aren't in a position to deal with them lacking the information. | 22-Jul 4:24 |
| 6619 | shadwolf | even netscape based webbrowsers (opera firefox etc ) had to evolve to feet what IE and the set of pluging designed by the industry was then bale to do | 22-Jul 4:22 |
| 6618 | Graham | Maybe we will have video streaming containers we can popup and animate | 22-Jul 4:22 |
| 6617 | Graham | He hasn't said he won't address that. | 22-Jul 4:21 |
| 6616 | shadwolf | but achieving a web browser is more than only connect to a http server retrive and renders HTTP once again that way to think was OK in years 90 but not in years 2008 ... Yes most of what do a webbrowser is to rederised HTML page but what about the video streaming or animated interfaces (what flash is ablem to bring to a webbrowser and make the 2008 web sites so hum dynamic) | 22-Jul 4:20 |