| # | User | Message | Date |
| 7480 | Terry | What we need now is a JQuery dialect for scripting the DOM.. never needed to pass back JSON, but push well formed JS | 13-Jan 9:42 |
| 7479 | Terry | Very simple, very cool. | 13-Jan 9:36 |
| 7478 | Terry | If you want to pull the value of a field for the first param.. <button onclick="ws.send('[{'+ $("#elementid).val(); +'} {} {isa} {person}]');return false;">GO</button> | 13-Jan 9:35 |
| 7477 | Terry | Here's an example piece of JS that passes the params to this ws-app <button onclick="ws.send('[{sofpandv} {} {isa} {person}]');return false;">GO</button> | 13-Jan 9:33 |
| 7476 | Terry | The "load copy data" was last nights work.. didn't care too much about anything else.. | 13-Jan 9:32 |
| 7475 | Terry | to lazy to clean it up | 13-Jan 9:30 |
| 7474 | Graham | how many copies do you need? | 13-Jan 9:30 |
| 7473 | Graham | why have you got data: copy data and then load copy data ? | 13-Jan 9:29 |
| 7472 | Terry | Here's a better version.. with basic error notification; on-message: func [client data][ ;-- escape all html tags for security concerns data: copy data replace/all data "<" "<" replace/all data ">" ">" params: load copy data do-task/on-done data func [client data][ if error? try[do load %test2.r][out: "alert('error with test2.r');"] broadcast out ] ] | 13-Jan 9:28 |
| 7471 | Terry | Now i can edit the test2.r script at will . Im guessing this is still non-blocking? | 13-Jan 9:16 |
| 7470 | Terry | test2.r looks like this; print params/1 out: "alert('ok');" | 13-Jan 9:15 |
| 7469 | Terry | This works in answer to my last questions.. on-message: func [client data][ ;-- escape all html tags for security concerns data: copy data replace/all data "<" "<" replace/all data ">" ">" params: load copy data do-task/on-done data func [client data][ n: do load %test2.r broadcast out ] ] | 13-Jan 9:15 |
| 7468 | Terry | Hey Doc, refreshing the page after every change to a ws-app is painful. Can't we just DO a script using do-task/on-done, put some error checking on the front end? So that the ws-app is just a handler of sorts as well. could then set up a timer/schduler.. and makes changes live.. that would make script development 10x faster. Refreshing to reload ws app is like a compiler. | 13-Jan 8:48 |
| 7467 | Dockimbel | Terry, there's a Javascript group for such topics. | 12-Jan 21:21 |
| 7466 | Terry | Jison: An API for creating parsers in JavaScript http://tinyurl.com/yeravlz | 12-Jan 20:27 |
| 7465 | Terry | That includes all the Atom db functions and data | 12-Jan 15:25 |
| 7464 | Terry | probably about 2/3rds :) | 12-Jan 15:23 |
| 7463 | BrianH | As opposed to RSP and Cheyenne files, I mean. | 12-Jan 8:31 |
| 7462 | BrianH | That is horrifically large by REBOL standards, but not bad by web standards. How much is images and other web stuff? | 12-Jan 8:27 |
| 7461 | Terry | I am a little concerned.. My entire cheyenne directory is rapidly approaching 2.5mb. | 12-Jan 8:22 |
| 7460 | Terry | nevermind | 12-Jan 6:16 |
| 7459 | Terry | Last issue is this.. n: [ one 'on' two 'tw'] n/one is returning on' (note the apos) What's up with that?? | 12-Jan 5:37 |
| 7458 | Terry | Ok got it.. the problem was this.. I have two fields, and to test, i only filled out one... so the string looked like so.. "[one 'on' two '']" (where the value following two is a pair of single quotes) So when i converted to a block, I got an INVALID WORD --'' error. But, using sockets, the error isn't reported... In other words, debugging is a pain. | 12-Jan 5:32 |
| 7457 | Terry | Looks like Cheyenne is my new serrogate home HA! | 12-Jan 5:26 |
| 7456 | Terry | ahh.. probe to the rescue (my rebol is so rusty.. if i add one more semi, or use ( instead of [ im going to barf. | 12-Jan 5:25 |
| 7455 | Terry | Now the problem is escaping the response? (I always send back JS for DOM scripting purposes) | 12-Jan 5:18 |
| 7454 | Terry | The block comes back as a string!
[one 'on' two 'tw'] But somehow it's getting encased in curlys or sumthin... so the best i can do is get a block like so x: [[one 'on' two 'tw']] | 12-Jan 5:17 |
| 7453 | PeterWood | r/one will only work if the data returned from ws includes the value one | 12-Jan 5:02 |
| 7452 | PeterWood | >> x/one
== 'on'
>> x/1
== one x/one is really a shortcut for select x 'one: >> select x 'one == 'on' | 12-Jan 5:01 |
| 7451 | PeterWood | Terry, are you mixing 1 and one ? | 12-Jan 4:59 |
| 7450 | Terry | I can't turn data into a block no matter what i try? | 12-Jan 4:53 |
| 7449 | Terry | Why does this work >> n: "one 'on' two 'tw'" == "one 'on' two 'tw'" >> x: to-block n == [one 'on' two 'tw'] >> x/one == 'on' but not this (data is from ws) r: to-block data r/one | 12-Jan 3:22 |
| 7448 | Terry | if you want the html... if(val== ''){val = $(this).html();} | 11-Jan 21:39 |
| 7447 | Terry | That function only deals with elements that have value attributes.. for pulling the content of, say a <p>, use this.. jQuery.each(arr, function(){ var val = $(this).val(); if(val== ''){val = $(this).text();} ...... | 11-Jan 21:38 |
| 7446 | Terry | oops.. missing / in closing script tag | 11-Jan 21:29 |
| 7445 | Terry | Here's some JS that takes an array of elements, and builds a block for passing to Rebol via WS <script> function toblock(arr){ var block = '['; jQuery.each(arr, function(){ var val = $(this).val(); var id = $(this).attr('id'); block = block+id+" '"+val+"' "; }); block = block+"]"; //remove, alert(block); }; <script> <input id="one" type="text" /> <input id="two" type="text" /> <button onclick="toblock([one, two]);">TEST</button> | 11-Jan 21:26 |
| 7444 | BrianH | Fortunately you can't create reference loops without DO, so if you stick to LOAD/all you should be fine. | 11-Jan 20:13 |
| 7443 | BrianH | It's great if the client won't primarily be a browser, as long as you stick to full dialects and never DO the code. | 11-Jan 20:07 |
| 7442 | BrianH | Not for web clients. You have to assume the client is hostile for web stuff, and screening REBOL data for malicious stuff is harder than parsing JSON data. The only way to be safe is to not transmit an executable dialect - full data dialect, reject anything bad. | 11-Jan 20:04 |
| 7441 | Terry | But, it is rebol friendly | 11-Jan 19:59 |
| 7440 | BrianH | It requires more security screening than JSON on the server side, and more work on the client side. | 11-Jan 19:58 |
| 7439 | Terry | Hmm, that could be very handy. | 11-Jan 19:56 |
| 7438 | BrianH | Not is you screen the data after loading and throw away all functions. | 11-Jan 19:50 |
| 7437 | Terry | any security issues? | 11-Jan 19:46 |
| 7436 | Terry | How about this.. passing a block via websocket as a data method? (not even sure if it would work), and loading it? ie: ws.send("[a 'one' b 'two]"); | 11-Jan 19:46 |
| 7435 | Dockimbel | Terry, sure, HTML5 opens up a new world for web applications, the gap with native apps is closing. | 11-Jan 18:40 |
| 7434 | Terry | else{golocalsql();} | 11-Jan 17:54 |
| 7433 | Terry | <script> var online = navigator.onLine if(online){var conn = new WebSocket("ws://localhost/ws.rsp")} </script> | 11-Jan 17:53 |
| 7432 | Terry | So, jump on a plane, update your Cheyenne data, store local, and sync via ws when back online :) | 11-Jan 17:49 |
| 7431 | Terry | Another handy html 5 api.. Web pages can determine if the client is online. (returns boolean) var online = navigator.onLine; alert(online); | 11-Jan 17:48 |
| 7430 | Terry | http://webkit.org/demos/sticky-notes/index.html | 11-Jan 17:23 |
| 7429 | Terry | P2P | 11-Jan 17:19 |
| 7428 | Dockimbel | WS doesn't give you access to local filesystem. | 11-Jan 17:18 |
| 7427 | Terry | Might even get away with partial file uploads, incrementals etc. | 11-Jan 17:18 |
| 7426 | Terry | Hmm, maybe not with WS? | 11-Jan 17:18 |
| 7425 | Dockimbel | Binary support / upload: these are 2 different things. Uploading files (access to local filesystem) still requires FORM with multipart/form-data encoding. | 11-Jan 17:17 |
| 7424 | Terry | BTW, the typo wasn't in the config file, but in my ws app, If one app doesn't work, should the whole server come down? | 11-Jan 17:17 |
| 7423 | Terry | Even non-form elements can be used.. <p id="myparagraph" onchange="ws.send(this.text);"> Lorem ipsum </p> | 11-Jan 17:15 |
| 7422 | Terry | There's a blur with websockets.. traditional usage takes a form, serialize and send to the server as a associative array in the url.. With sockets, that's not necessary.
Forms are becoming less relevant.. As individual fields can do their own thing.. <input type="text" onblur="ws.send(this.val());"> | 11-Jan 17:10 |
| 7421 | Terry | I guess the binary support would go hand in hand with your new upload script? | 11-Jan 16:52 |
| 7420 | Terry | JSON was my first thought.. but I think I'll build a custom "data format" using triples to keep inline with the back end.. still thinking about it. | 11-Jan 16:43 |
| 7419 | Dockimbel | SVN r61 FEAT: added request/store function to help manage uploaded files (see %changelog.txt). FIX: IE issue with upload.html (cache issue). Works ok in IE now. DOC: upload API documented in %www/upload.html. | 11-Jan 16:15 |
| 7418 | Dockimbel | IE issue fixed with upload.html. It wasn't a settimeout( ) issue, it was a IE caching all the AJAX responses. | 11-Jan 14:48 |
| 7417 | Dockimbel | Btw, keep in mind that defining a "standard" protocol above web sockets goes against its primary purpose : provide a general purpose packet-oriented communication channel. It would be like defining a "standard" protocol above TCP. For practical usage with JS clients, JSON data format is the way to go. Don't forget that the web socket implementation in Cheyenne is partial, only TEXT frames are supported currently. I could add the binary support also, but I don't have a need for that for now. If someone has a *real* need for that, let me know. | 11-Jan 12:00 |
| 7416 | Dockimbel | Typos errors in config file should be caught, what kind of typo was that? | 11-Jan 10:06 |
| 7415 | Dockimbel | take the reb-services dialecting approach and format it in JSON ;-) | 11-Jan 10:04 |
| 7414 | Dockimbel | standard protocol for sockets : JSON. | 11-Jan 10:02 |
| 7413 | Dockimbel | mod-upload: it was missing, it's in the repository now. | 11-Jan 10:02 |
| 7412 | Terry | Doc, any thoughts on a standard protcol for sockets? xml? | 11-Jan 6:23 |
| 7411 | Terry | I'm curious as to lag around the world (should add geocaching i suppose) | 11-Jan 5:03 |
| 7410 | Terry | Working on some websocket experiments..
http://shinyrockets.com/exper.html - simple canvas game... Losing the game publishes the fail , ip and port to everybody. | 11-Jan 5:02 |
| 7409 | Terry | should have some default error trapping for socket-apps in the http.cfg file, no? One typo brings the whole server down. | 11-Jan 4:57 |
| 7408 | Terry | After updating the SVN, I get a id: 'cannot-open arg1: "/c/websock2/Cheyenne/mods/mod-upload.r" and the file is not there. | 11-Jan 4:46 |
| 7407 | Dockimbel | 10 Mbps => 10MB | 10-Jan 20:58 |
| 7406 | Dockimbel | This mod-upload version is unsuitable for production yet, the upload tokens on server are not garbage-collected. | 10-Jan 20:51 |
| 7405 | Dockimbel | If you're testing the upload demo locally, be sure to pick a file big enough (at least 10 Mbps). Don't worry about uploaded files, the target script (show.rsp) doesn't save them, so the server's copy will be deleted as soon as the upload is finished. | 10-Jan 20:47 |
| 7404 | Dockimbel | Help would be appreciated to solve or workaround the setTimeout() issue with IE. | 10-Jan 20:43 |
| 7403 | Dockimbel | SVN r59 : experimental mod-upload released. This new mod adds server-side API for querying realtime progress info on uploaded files. See the demo : http://localhost/upload.html (not commented yet). Current restrictions: - works only when posting one file at a time in a given <form>. - can't make it work for IE (IE seems to have an issue with setTimeout( ) method). | 10-Jan 20:42 |
| 7402 | Terry | I used flash as an application framework for an engineering co once.. one of the biggest mistakes of my career. | 10-Jan 17:24 |
| 7401 | Terry | raisin | 10-Jan 17:19 |
| 7400 | Dockimbel | rising | 10-Jan 10:48 |
| 7399 | Dockimbel | Maybe Flash usage for sockets, animations, games and videos might start dropping soon, but as an application framework engine, its usage keeps raising. | 10-Jan 10:46 |
| 7398 | Dockimbel | ActionScript, which is Flex's programming language is now in #19 in Tiobe's index. | 10-Jan 10:37 |
| 7397 | Dockimbel | "who's interested to do real apps in Flash?" http://www.adobe.com/products/flex/buzz/customers/list.html | 10-Jan 10:32 |
| 7396 | Dockimbel | "Flash might move to RIA" : it's already done, it's called "Flex". | 10-Jan 10:30 |
| 7395 | Pekr | Flash might move to RIA (but who's interested to do real apps in Flash?) or - many mp3 etc vendors are doing their UI using flash. As for html 5, we are still talking vapor, unless it is supported by most browsers, which are used by most ppl IE still has 62% of share, and IIRC CSS3 and HTML5 are going to be supported in IE9. How long do you think will it take to replace those 60% of IEs out there by IE9? Well ... I know what you are trying to say ... it is inevitable ... but ... not yet, not yet :-) .... this probably belongs to advocacy though .... | 10-Jan 10:24 |
| 7394 | Terry | I think it's official.. Flash is dead. I was modifying some flash xmlsocket based apps to work with Cheyenne websockets, and then realized, why bother? I can do it all with HTML 5 HTML 5 has.. CANVAS AND VIDEO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdf0x8am1cg&feature=player_embedded# chroma key effect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN_r9jxL0-A&feature=player_embedded LOCAL STORAGE Chrome has SQLite built in, accessible via JS | 10-Jan 9:46 |
| 7393 | Terry | Hmm, the last person to run the atom demo had a 6971.28.. second 'round trip' .. wonder what happened there? | 9-Jan 19:28 |
| 7392 | Terry | Doc, Flash's core strength (animation) is quickly evaporating. | 9-Jan 19:25 |
| 7391 | Terry | Flash would be the best way to interface with older browsers via sockets.
JQuery <=> Flash <=> Cheyenne Although it's not necessary, I only push Javascript back to the DOM manipulation. (Hence the need for a JS dialect.. specifically JQuery) | 9-Jan 19:24 |
| 7390 | Janko | I think not, older brosers only have xmlhttp (ajax) option, iframes and other comet like tricks but they can't do a socket .. I haven't seen what js.io does.. if you wanted to make a "pure" html chat without comet or polling you made JS that talked to invisible 1px flash and flash has XMLSocket or something like that. But I heard recently that it can be used for other things than xml .. | 9-Jan 15:44 |
| 7389 | Kaj | The only way I've heard of to do WebSocket in older browsers (almost all of them right now) is the Flash implementation | 9-Jan 15:43 |
| 7388 | Kaj | I hoped so at first, but it seems to be a different system | 9-Jan 15:42 |
| 7387 | Dockimbel | Can't older browsers use some JS layer simulating web sockets like js.io library? | 9-Jan 15:36 |
| 7386 | Kaj | Unless we need Flash to get at web sockets from older browsers | 9-Jan 15:25 |
| 7385 | Dockimbel | Terry: interesting links, so we might get rid of flash soon, no? | 9-Jan 12:21 |
| 7384 | Dockimbel | Janko: I have in my todo list a full virtual system to add to Cheyenne allowing embedding webapps in a encapped Cheyenne. It can be done by replacing every filesystem accessing functions (DO, LOAD, READ, WRITE,...) by custom ones getting files from memory. The hard part is to integrate such approach within Cheyenne preserving perfomances for normal filesystem accesses while avoiding redundant code, this needs time for designing and prototyping. I can't see an easy way to protect you webapps right now, but maybe other might have found a way to do that? | 9-Jan 12:19 |
| 7383 | Janko | I am usually for not complicating with this but this webapp is of classical competetive scene as will also still run as online service so I want to prevent that competitors could too easily study it , find any possible weaknessess etc... | 9-Jan 11:10 |
| 7382 | Janko | What woudl be the best way to do some casual source code protection of cheyenne webapp if you want to distributte it as a "download and install" option. I guess I could make some sort of code obfuscator that would change the names to something without meaning, is there anything better one could do? | 9-Jan 11:07 |
| 7381 | Terry | A couple lines of code and you could create a live chart displaying the various times folks are getting, including geo location etc | 9-Jan 10:07 |
| 7380 | Terry | Funny thing is, if your "ATOMDB Query time:" changes randomly? That means someone else is running the test, and their results are being broadcast to your browser. HOW COOL IS THAT! | 9-Jan 10:05 |
| 7379 | Terry | Font used is DroidSans.. can download for free from -> http://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/Droid-Sans | 9-Jan 9:38 |
| 7378 | Terry | Demo includes; - websocket roundtrip timer - ATOMDB query timer - Example of changing a graphic when socket is closed. - Font-face demo (another HTML 5 feature that allows ANY font in a webpage .. see the <style> on the page | 9-Jan 9:37 |
| 7377 | Terry | WS to AtomDB demo http://shinyrockets.com/atom.html | 9-Jan 7:58 |
| 7376 | Terry | Try it on Chrome.. much faster. | 9-Jan 0:42 |
| 7375 | Kaj | Hm, those last two work fairly well on my ancient Firefox 1.5 | 9-Jan 0:41 |
| 7374 | Terry | Now THIS is very cool use of CANVAS http://www.universaloscillation.com/chrome/popups/ | 9-Jan 0:37 |
| 7373 | Gregg | Indeed. Thanks here too. | 9-Jan 0:34 |
| 7372 | Terry | Another.. try shaking the browser http://mrdoob.com/projects/chromeexperiments/ball_pool/ | 9-Jan 0:33 |
| 7371 | Kaj | Thanks for the links, Terry. Busy bookmarking here | 9-Jan 0:33 |
| 7370 | Gregg | Isn't that Doc's old v-balls demo? ;-) | 9-Jan 0:31 |
| 7369 | Terry | This one is nice http://www.chromeexperiments.com/detail/depth-of-field/ | 9-Jan 0:26 |
| 7368 | Terry | Yeah, Doc.. was hoping for a condensed version seeing as you've done the whole learning curve. | 9-Jan 0:03 |
| 7367 | Terry | Will try some experiments using Canvas and websockets.. here's some great examples http://www.chromeexperiments.com/ | 9-Jan 0:01 |
| 7366 | Dockimbel | Web socket protocol is fully described here : http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol Quick protocol overview : http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-68#section-1.2 | 8-Jan 23:20 |
| 7365 | Terry | I haven't heard a single sheep all day? No one is trying the demo :) | 8-Jan 22:55 |
| 7364 | Terry | Doc, Im going to develop some rebol and flash apps that connect to Cheyenne via the websocket. What is the procedure for the handshaking? | 8-Jan 21:05 |
| 7363 | Dockimbel | Hit F5 several times, it should always answer ok if Cheyenne is running with -w 0. | 8-Jan 12:40 |
| 7362 | Dockimbel | Try testing with this script : <% either value? 'azerty [ print "debug mode not working" ][ print "debug mode is working ok" set 'azerty 1 ] %> | 8-Jan 12:39 |
| 7361 | Dockimbel | 0.9.19 binary works ok here in -w 0 debug mode. | 8-Jan 12:38 |
| 7360 | Janko | maybe I should better explain what I am doing so I won't steal your time here (and it's no problem basically as I will turn all global words that are only locally needed to something else) .. it's bad coding practica anyway | 8-Jan 12:00 |
| 7359 | Janko | I tried cheyenne -vv -w 0 ; and now cheyenne - w 0 .. with same result | 8-Jan 12:00 |
| 7358 | Dockimbel | It's : - w 0, -w only won't work, it expects the number of worker processes as argument. It should work ok with both source and binary version. I'll make a test right know with 0.9.19 binary... | 8-Jan 11:56 |
| 7357 | Janko | 1) I tried -w before (I remembered you hinted me the last time to use it to always reload) but it didn't make the difference in this case (as far as I can tell).. does -w only work with source discributtions? | 8-Jan 11:44 |
| 7356 | Dockimbel | Btw, since 0.9.19, the RSP engine tries to catch all words defined in RSP scripts but outside of a local context in a hidden webapp context (one per worker process). | 8-Jan 11:42 |
| 7355 | Dockimbel | 1) I use -w 0 daily, works ok here. 2) see the solution in Core group. | 8-Jan 11:38 |
| 7354 | Janko | one solution is also that I define all words local to pageload in some object that is cleared on each pageload probably | 8-Jan 10:55 |
| 7353 | Janko | I just found out about a bug I was making and could only be discovered when cheyenne was first started, because some word was undefined then so it triggered an error, if I did some other things I couldn't see it but it would return wrong information in reality .. 1. is there any way maybe that would make cheyenne "reset" each request (for debugging & testing purposes, not production) .. the -w option seems not to do this. this could probebly be solved by wrapping also those parts in functions ... another question.. 2. Is there any way I could see all globals I created so I could find wtich ones I "leaked" unintentionally .. it would be very helpfull if rebol could let you define functs that would warn you if you used or defined any global words | 8-Jan 10:43 |
| 7352 | Terry | I guess you can check out the 'console' after hitting CTRL - SHIFT - i .. check for errors | 8-Jan 10:20 |
| 7351 | amacleod | yes | 8-Jan 10:18 |
| 7350 | amacleod | thats weird | 8-Jan 10:18 |
| 7349 | Terry | volume up.. all that stuff? | 8-Jan 10:18 |
| 7348 | Terry | it's playing here when you click it | 8-Jan 10:18 |
| 7347 | amacleod | Still no sound...even when clicking the button | 8-Jan 10:17 |
| 7346 | Terry | i can hear it :) | 8-Jan 10:16 |
| 7345 | Terry | there ya go | 8-Jan 10:16 |
| 7344 | amacleod | yes | 8-Jan 10:16 |
| 7343 | Terry | Did you click the button? | 8-Jan 10:16 |
| 7342 | amacleod | yes | 8-Jan 10:16 |
| 7341 | Terry | can you get this? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/Brummdose.ogg | 8-Jan 10:15 |
| 7340 | Terry | works fine here. | 8-Jan 10:15 |
| 7339 | Terry | hmm | 8-Jan 10:13 |
| 7338 | amacleod | Not getting any sound, Terry.. using chrome4 | 8-Jan 10:13 |
| 7337 | Terry | Uses the HTML 5 <audio> tag. Non-blocking. Open up 4 or 5 tabs and you get a flock :) | 8-Jan 10:12 |
| 7336 | Terry | Demo.. pushing sound to all ports http://shinyrockets.com/echo.html | 8-Jan 10:11 |
| 7335 | Terry | Here's some code that uses flash as a websocket proxy for browsers that don't support websockets
http://github.com/gimite/web-socket-js Needs some tweaking, particularly with ports. | 8-Jan 7:36 |
| 7334 | Terry | Nope, wrong again.. workers are fine in Chrome.. that last demo only works with FF Here's some other demos on Resig's page http://ejohn.org/blog/web-workers/ | 7-Jan 23:35 |
| 7333 | Terry | Hmm, maybe Chrome 4 isn't there yet after all? | 7-Jan 23:07 |
| 7332 | Terry | Need to try an experiment where a worker thread sends an AJAX request to an RSP page, which in turns pushes back via websocket :) | 7-Jan 22:47 |
| 7331 | Maxim | that is nice! | 7-Jan 22:45 |
| 7330 | Terry | Here's a great webworker article / demo http://blog.mozbox.org/post/2009/04/10/Web-Workers-in-action | 7-Jan 22:45 |
| 7329 | Terry | Speaking of threads.. Along with Websockets, HTML 5 comes with Webworkers (supported by Chrome as well) "Workers provide a simple means for web content to run scripts in background threads. Once created, a worker can send messages to the spawning task by posting messages to an event handler specified by the creator. The worker thread can perform tasks without interfering with the user interface. In addition, they can perform I/O using XMLHttpRequest (although the responseXML and channel attributes are always null). The Worker interface spawns real OS-level threads, and concurrency can cause interesting effects in your code if you aren't careful." https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Using_web_workers | 7-Jan 22:44 |
| 7328 | Graham | Amazon allows you free db storage in multiple redundant locations | 7-Jan 20:57 |
| 7327 | TomBon | I am using both, slicehost and linode since a year now.
very good virtualisation with both of them. flash, mysql
very stable, even a big mysql-server with only 384mb ram
is running fine. linode has a better control panel,
slicehost feels a little faster. there is also another candidate for virt-hosting. gandi, located in france if somebody likes europe :-) scalable via virt-shares. https://www.gandi.net/hosting | 7-Jan 20:44 |
| 7326 | Maxim | With linode you can actually do fancy multi-host redundancy stuff or auto reboot on some conditions, etc. their control panel is also extremely well made. you can setup your server (out a good variety of POSIX OSes) in a matter of minutes. | 7-Jan 20:05 |
| 7325 | Terry | Carl, you have any thoughts on websockets? | 7-Jan 19:32 |
| 7324 | Terry | Hey, its 2010.. where's my flying car they promised back in the 60's? | 7-Jan 19:31 |
| 7323 | Carl | T: yep. Blast from the past. | 7-Jan 19:30 |
| 7322 | Graham | but costs a little more. | 7-Jan 19:22 |
| 7321 | Graham | Much more flexible I suspect than Linode or Slicehost | 7-Jan 19:22 |
| 7320 | Terry | CGI proxy? They still make that stuff ;) | 7-Jan 19:22 |
| 7319 | Graham | So, you can test for a couple of hours and then quit. Want to run a windows 2003 or 2008 server to test? Start them up and pay 12 c an h our. | 7-Jan 19:22 |
| 7318 | Graham | Amazon charge only for uptime .. at 8c an hour. | 7-Jan 19:21 |
| 7317 | Carl | (It pipes all R3 Chat connections via a CGI proxy.) | 7-Jan 19:20 |
| 7316 | Carl | I'd be quite interested in testing R3 Chat on Cheyenne. Right now, it must drive the rebol.net server crazy on CGI. | 7-Jan 19:20 |
| 7315 | Henrik | Dockimbel, yep, nice and stable. Love it. | 7-Jan 19:19 |
| 7314 | Carl | H: This AltME world runs from a different provider (via rebol.net), so is not typical. | 7-Jan 19:19 |
| 7313 | Henrik | Carl, all I can say is that I've had much fewer connection dropouts with my Linode than what I observe through AltME. It may not reflect your situation, but it just looks far more stable to me. Also you can specify where you want your server placed, and so have multiple accounts in different physical locations. | 7-Jan 19:17 |
| 7312 | Graham | I'm hosting 5 virtual sites on mine using Cheyenne ... | 7-Jan 19:17 |
| 7311 | Dockimbel | Henrik: nice! | 7-Jan 19:16 |
| 7310 | Graham | My site on EC2 is private .. http://gchiu.no-ip.biz:8000/ | 7-Jan 19:16 |
| 7309 | Carl | G: all. | 7-Jan 19:14 |
| 7308 | Carl | H: cool. Cheyenne. | 7-Jan 19:14 |
| 7307 | Graham | or IOS? | 7-Jan 19:14 |
| 7306 | Graham | Is this for altme? | 7-Jan 19:14 |
| 7305 | Carl | Frankly, the biggest problem I have is long lags/dropouts on connection times. | 7-Jan 19:13 |
| 7304 | Henrik | Carl, I already do. You can see my site at: http://97.107.135.89/www.hmkdesign.dk/project.rsp?id=vid-ext-kit&page=info | 7-Jan 19:13 |
| 7303 | Graham | moving to ~science | 7-Jan 19:13 |
| 7302 | Carl | Question: what about connect latency? | 7-Jan 19:13 |
| 7301 | Terry | Forget all that.. think WEBSOCKETS! | 7-Jan 19:13 |
| 7300 | Graham | $300 vs linode of $240 pa. | 7-Jan 19:13 |
| 7299 | Carl | P: yes, move to other group. I will respond. | 7-Jan 19:13 |
| 7298 | Pekr | maybe we should move out of this group? | 7-Jan 19:12 |
| 7297 | Graham | Amazon is Small Instance (Default) 1.7 GB of memory, 1 EC2 Compute Unit (1 virtual core with 1 EC2 Compute Unit), 160 GB of local instance storage, 32-bit platform If you commit to a 3 year term it is only $300 per year | 7-Jan 19:12 |
| 7296 | Pekr | Carl - how goes rebol.com redesign? Do you have any gfx proposals already? | 7-Jan 19:12 |
| 7295 | Carl | This is quite interesting, esp if we can run REBOL as the primary services. | 7-Jan 19:12 |
| 7294 | Henrik | well, go ahead :-) redundancy is good. | 7-Jan 19:12 |
| 7293 | Carl | If can cancel anytime, then why not try both? | 7-Jan 19:11 |
| 7292 | Henrik | I chose Linode, because they offer a bit more for the same money. But it's probably a matter of taste. | 7-Jan 19:11 |
| 7291 | Carl | This actually looks pretty good. I was leaning toward Amazon... but... | 7-Jan 19:10 |
| 7290 | Henrik | and you can cancel at any time, if you don't like it. | 7-Jan 19:10 |
| 7289 | Carl | lol, Slicehost.com: "No contracts, no setup fees." | 7-Jan 19:10 |
| 7288 | Carl | If so, 384MB is fine. chop chop | 7-Jan 19:09 |
| 7287 | Carl | Do they allow you to custom config? | 7-Jan 19:09 |
| 7286 | Henrik | The only gripe I have is not much RAM (384 MB), but still for 20 bucks/month. As a side effect, I use it now for IRC and other minor services, like makedoc and some source hosting. | 7-Jan 19:08 |
| 7285 | Graham | And yes, you can listen on what you like... you define the firewall settings | 7-Jan 19:07 |
| 7284 | Graham | You can save images of your entire site and just restart from that. | 7-Jan 19:07 |
| 7283 | Graham | I use Amazon EC2 and it's reliable to a point .. if it goes down I just start another instance ... and in 6 months, I've only had to do that once. | 7-Jan 19:06 |
| 7282 | Henrik | I had one breakdown for some hours, but their response was very detailed. I use Linode. As I understand it, Slicehost were recently purchased by Rackspace (buyouts = alarm bells). | 7-Jan 19:06 |
| 7281 | Carl | So, Do they let me listen on any ports? | 7-Jan 19:06 |
| 7280 | Carl | If truly virtual, and good performance, that's a good place to checkout. | 7-Jan 19:05 |
| 7279 | Henrik | So I can finally run Cheyenne on a high bandwidth server. | 7-Jan 19:05 |
| 7278 | Carl | G, H: really. So, are they fast and reliable? | 7-Jan 19:05 |
| 7277 | Henrik | Slicehost and Linode run virtual servers. So you don't have to setup your own box. Very nice. | 7-Jan 19:05 |
| 7276 | Graham | Linode is similar .. Amazon is more expensive ... | 7-Jan 19:04 |
| 7275 | Carl | G: well, those were different days. | 7-Jan 19:04 |
| 7274 | Graham | Choose your own distro ... and install it. | 7-Jan 19:04 |
| 7273 | Graham | C: you can do pretty much what you want apart from hosting adult content | 7-Jan 19:04 |
| 7272 | Carl | H: problem is, no provider is going to let you install it. | 7-Jan 19:03 |
| 7271 | Graham | And he's come back to tell you this?? :) | 7-Jan 19:03 |
| 7270 | Carl | G: slicehost allows running your own server?? | 7-Jan 19:03 |
| 7269 | Henrik | I assume an R3 apache mod would not be far away, possiblity wise? | 7-Jan 19:03 |
| 7268 | Carl | But, I felt it was a kludge back in 2000.... however I think Jeff K was right. | 7-Jan 19:03 |
| 7267 | Terry | Hmm, that would have been interesting. | 7-Jan 19:03 |
| 7266 | Carl | Last week, when reviewing the R2 build... I finally had a regret that we never released the apache mod for R2. | 7-Jan 19:02 |
| 7265 | Graham | slicehost is $10 or $20 a month | 7-Jan 19:02 |
| 7264 | Carl | Reason is, if you don't want to use Php, and you want economies of large hosting providers, that's your main choice. Else, Perl. <gag> | 7-Jan 19:01 |
| 7263 | Carl | H: yes, it's a bit odd. I thought CGI was dead 8 years ago.... but then, NO. | 7-Jan 19:01 |
| 7262 | Carl | G: It runs on a large hosted provider. | 7-Jan 18:59 |
| 7261 | Henrik | I call it "why didn't we have this 10 years ago". | 7-Jan 18:59 |
| 7260 | Pekr | what Terry tries to say imo is, that nowadays the web proceeded, and it is much more dynamic, so that even RSP sounds old-school ... | 7-Jan 18:59 |
| 7259 | Graham | Why aren't you using Cheyenne for rebol.com ? | 7-Jan 18:59 |
| 7258 | Carl | I would call this "design refactoring" ... a high level form of "code refactoring". | 7-Jan 18:58 |
| 7257 | Carl | As I wrap up WIP3 for the current website redo, it seems a bit odd that each time, the WIP system gets smaller and better. | 7-Jan 18:58 |
| 7256 | Carl | Hi guys. Yes, you really can divide the scripting needs into just a few primary categories. | 7-Jan 18:57 |
| 7255 | Terry | I don't like page refreshing.. should trigger an event, and all the elments fade out, and new ones fade in. You can do this kind of stuff with AJAX, and even more so now with WS | 7-Jan 18:56 |
| 7254 | Terry | RSP is fine, but I just don't like the whole 'preprocessor ' approach.. it's too 1995 | 7-Jan 18:55 |
| 7253 | Terry | So, to copy this method into Cheyenne websockets, i need to 'DO' .r scripts.. not rsp. | 7-Jan 18:53 |
| 7252 | Terry | BTW.. i use PHP as a language, not for it's "Hypertext preprocess" ... 85% of my php has no html in it at all. Mainly use PHP to receive and process AJAX form requests | 7-Jan 18:52 |
| 7251 | Dockimbel | Still needs an improved virtual filesystem to easily run RSP web apps from memory, but for custom embedded REBOL apps, it should work ok. | 7-Jan 18:45 |
| 7250 | Terry | Yeah, my stuff is all using the embedded feature.. very nice. | 7-Jan 18:43 |
| 7249 | Dockimbel | To start addressing these markets, I need a 1.0 Cheyenne (means finish some features + units tests + full docs). | 7-Jan 18:42 |
| 7248 | Terry | Write some simple docs outlining websockets, and I'll get you to 50K in a month. | 7-Jan 18:41 |
| 7247 | Dockimbel | Btw, the target market that was at the origin of Cheyenne project was home web servers, both for local and external use (serving files and apps from your home connection). The main feature was supposed to be simplicity of use through a very simple, but powerful control panel, and on-demand app loading (something like App Store, but for web apps). Another market that we've thought about was portable embedded web apps (server + apps bundled in a single exe with 0 install, 0 config). | 7-Jan 18:41 |
| 7246 | Dockimbel | That's the plan once Cheyenne reaches 100K users. ;-) | 7-Jan 18:36 |
| 7245 | Terry | Or maybe GPL and commercial | 7-Jan 18:35 |
| 7244 | Terry | One BSD, the other commercial | 7-Jan 18:34 |
| 7243 | Terry | You should probably dual license Cheyenne. | 7-Jan 18:33 |
| 7242 | Terry | Cheyenne OS | 7-Jan 18:31 |
| 7241 | Terry | There ya go.. | 7-Jan 18:31 |
| 7240 | Dockimbel | "Cheyenne Scripting Language", sounds good. ;-) | 7-Jan 18:31 |
| 7239 | Terry | The desktop is dead, unless you're building a better browser, or games.. and even that distinction is blurring. I'll bet people play more online browser based games than desktop.. Folks have moved from desktop to console. | 7-Jan 18:31 |
| 7238 | Dockimbel | From a purely marketing POV, that might make sense. ;-) | 7-Jan 18:30 |
| 7237 | Terry | In my books, Rebol should change it's name to Cheyenne. | 7-Jan 18:29 |
| 7236 | Dockimbel | It's not a matter for me to favor REBOL against PHP for builting apps (everyone is free to choose), but just that there are better tools to run PHP code than Cheyenne. OTOH, I'm not sure there's better choice currently than Cheyenne to run REBOL web apps. | 7-Jan 18:28 |
| 7235 | Terry | The other option is to build a higher level dialect of some sort. Even developers would switch if the switch was dead simple. | 7-Jan 18:26 |
| 7234 | Dockimbel | Terry, the point is that if you want to make PHP apps, you should better stick with another web server more adequate to PHP like Apache or Lightttpd. Cheyenne's PHP support has been done mainly to be able to integrate existing PHP apps in REBOL powered web sites, not build new ones. | 7-Jan 18:24 |
| 7233 | Terry | Überchat | 7-Jan 18:23 |
| 7232 | Terry | Now all you need to do is come up with the killer app :) | 7-Jan 18:22 |
| 7231 | Terry | Ruby on Rails looks interesting, but not interesting enough for me to spend more than an hour 'playing' with it. BUT.. if RoR built some killer app that let me config it, I would take the time. | 7-Jan 18:21 |
| 7230 | Terry | I plan on making my apps in Rebol, but 99.99999% of the developer world won't be so 'inspired'. You may get away with it if you can build a killer app, which may very well happen now. Otherwise, it will be a hobby, like Rebol. | 7-Jan 18:18 |
| 7229 | Dockimbel | That may be possible, but would be more complicated to support than web sockets as the server can't send data without getting a request. It will be hard to extend the web socket application framework without bloating it. Maybe a separated mod-comet would be a cleaner approach (but might duplicate a Iot of code in mod-socket). I will give it a look anyway, at least to estimate the time required to support it. | 7-Jan 18:18 |
| 7228 | Kaj | Doesn't have to be perfect, just facilitate a migration period for older browsers | 7-Jan 17:57 |
| 7227 | Kaj | To that end, any chance you could extend your WebSocket framework with a somewhat similar Comet-like functionality for older browsers, that only uses Ajax? | 7-Jan 17:56 |
| 7226 | Dockimbel | PHP connection: it should be possible with minimal modifications, but why would you want that? Is there any significant PHP socket app yet ready to use? My goal in adding web sockets early in Cheyenne is to push developers to make nice apps in REBOL, not PHP. | 7-Jan 17:46 |
| 7225 | Dockimbel | Socket apps folder automatic loading : you still need to specify the mapping between URL and socket app, no ? | 7-Jan 17:42 |
| 7224 | Terry | All in all doc, cheyenne sockets are very impressive. Couple of suggestions.. - Have a folder specifically for socket-apps that automatically get loaded into the http.conf file.. - Create a connection through PHP (if possible.. otherwise can just proxy, but adds lag) | 7-Jan 17:31 |
| 7223 | Terry | Yeah, in Chrome, hit CTRL-SHIFT- i | 7-Jan 17:25 |
| 7222 | Terry | That chat.html I made was a quick hack of yours. Need to build proper cookie mgmt functions.. deal with sessions etc. | 7-Jan 17:24 |
| 7221 | Pekr | Does Chrome have anything like FireBug or WebDeveloper extension in FF? | 7-Jan 17:23 |
| 7220 | Terry | Doc, i was referring to my modified chat.html regarding the 'signout' issue. | 7-Jan 17:22 |
| 7219 | Terry | Ahh.. shift-reload to clear cache, and nice debugging/developer tools.. Chrome is well thought out. | 7-Jan 17:21 |
| 7218 | Dockimbel | I'm not sure for Chrome, isn't F5 a simple page reload (without clearing the cache)? | 7-Jan 14:30 |
| 7217 | Pekr | Shift + Reload (I am used to it) = F5 btw .... | 7-Jan 14:24 |
| 7216 | Dockimbel | Btw, you may need to Shift+Reload in Chrome to get the latest chat code. | 7-Jan 14:23 |
| 7215 | Dockimbel | Cookies: well, it would be a nice addition to a real chat app, but the point in this demo is to show web socket usage, not to build a full-featured chat app. If you want to build a full chat app, you're free to take my demo code and extend it as far as you wish. | 7-Jan 13:24 |
| 7214 | Dockimbel | I've opened 2 Chrome windows logged in the online chat demo from both of them and I receive correctly in the first window the quit message from the second one. How can I reproduce your issue? | 7-Jan 13:19 |
| 7213 | Terry | No cookies? I like cookies. | 6-Jan 23:49 |
| 7212 | Terry | Need to fix the 'signout' updates to other ports.. it's not sending the "bob leaves" message, and it's not updating the user list <div> | 6-Jan 23:43 |
| 7211 | Dockimbel | Thanks Terry, I've upgraded the chat demo with most of your changes. I've also included an alert message for non-compliant web browsers. | 6-Jan 23:10 |
| 7210 | Terry | Updated version of Doc's chat example..
- Enter key support for login and posting chats
- Cookie mgmt for user name
- various "tweaks" to the JQuery chat2.html: http://pastebin.com/m66a38d50 | 6-Jan 21:31 |
| 7209 | Terry | Add this to the $(document).ready(function(){ ... } in chat to submit chats using the enter key; $("input").keypress(function (e) { if (e.which == 13 ) { ws.send('m' + user + ': ' + $("[name=post]").val()); $("[name=post]").val(''); $("[name=post]").focus(); } }); | 6-Jan 17:10 |
| 7208 | Terry | Chrome has a great JS debugging tool.. In the icon on the top left that looks like a page, open developer -> Javascript console | 6-Jan 16:34 |
| 7207 | Dockimbel | Turning off DNS prefetching is explained here : http://jackkonblog.blogspot.com/2009/03/turn-off-dns-pre-fetching-in-google.html | 6-Jan 16:00 |
| 7206 | Terry | You don't say that to your patients as well, i hope ;) | 6-Jan 15:58 |
| 7205 | Terry | Hmm, maybe programming isn't your forte. | 6-Jan 15:57 |
| 7204 | Graham | Terry .. I gave up | 6-Jan 4:05 |
| 7203 | Terry | Graham, did you shut off the Chrome dns prefetching? | 6-Jan 3:55 |
| 7202 | Terry | Brian, I'm comparing with Altme only.. Desktop vs client/server is a whole other argument. | 6-Jan 3:54 |
| 7201 | BrianH | Server-side web stuff is fun though. | 6-Jan 0:46 |
| 7200 | BrianH | Must be just me, I guess., | 6-Jan 0:45 |
| 7199 | BrianH | I like some of the stuff on that list, but I like doing it better without HTML/JS/CSS. | 6-Jan 0:45 |
| 7198 | BrianH | It's funny, Terry, but I keep agreeing with your sarcastic list once I filter out the stuff that I can do easier without a web browser, or that aren't necessary at all when you aren't using one. | 6-Jan 0:44 |
| 7197 | Graham | I'd ask Terry to write it for Cheyenne... but I suspect that we'll never be able to reach it because of dns issues! | 6-Jan 0:39 |
| 7196 | Terry | and some sound js lib as well | 6-Jan 0:37 |
| 7195 | Terry | I have a hotkey javascript library I'll hook up. | 6-Jan 0:36 |
| 7194 | Kaj | Web chat it will be | 6-Jan 0:34 |
| 7193 | Graham | And hacking of php ... yep | 6-Jan 0:24 |
| 7192 | Terry | ... integrating Processing... http://processingjs.org/exhibition | 6-Jan 0:24 |
| 7191 | Terry | ... CSS, database access, acting as a proxy to servers, JQuery, Google map integration, Amazon S3, OpenID, AtomAPI and other RSS integration, Delicious... man, i HATE that stuff. | 6-Jan 0:22 |
| 7190 | Graham | don't forget unintended deletion of forum channels! | 6-Jan 0:20 |
| 7189 | BrianH | Yup, I agree, at least the parts that need the web to do (which isn't much on that list). | 6-Jan 0:15 |
| 7188 | Terry | Yeah, web chats.... avatars, skins, website integration, API integration with gmail, animations, sound, video and other media integration... those things really suck | 6-Jan 0:14 |
| 7187 | BrianH | All good criticisms, except the "proprietary" one. It could be worse though - it could be a web chat. | 6-Jan 0:07 |
| 7186 | Terry | Methinks the Cheyenne world would be much better serviced using Cheyenne chat rather than this archaic, uneditable, uncustomizable, proprietary and difficult to enter thing called Altme | 6-Jan 0:05 |
| 7185 | Terry | This is helpful as well.. in the chrome address bar type; about:dns | 5-Jan 20:28 |
| 7184 | Terry | Article regarding chrome dns prefetching http://tinyurl.com/4adsdd | 5-Jan 20:27 |
| 7183 | Terry | Ok.. Chrome has a "prefetch dns" option.. so my demo was caching the ip rather than the domain
I've updated the domain to a proper dns record, rather than just forwarding.
If you still can't see the demo, turn off "prefetch dns".. temporarily http://shinyrockets.com/ws2.html | 5-Jan 20:25 |
| 7182 | Graham | cause there is a default directory for all incoming file data ... | 5-Jan 18:28 |
| 7181 | Janko | I am using 0.9.19, no problem just wanted to mention. @Graham: can I ask why are you doing this (checking for file OR data in request/content): either file? filedata/2 [ write/binary join get-user-dir filename read/binary join incomingdir filedata/2 ] [ if filedata/2 [ write/binary join savedir filename filedata/2 ] ] I imagine if file is bigger it get's saved and you copy it. But how can you then determine the incoming/pwd is this some cheyenne default? | 5-Jan 12:34 |