REBOL3 - DevCon2008 (post-chatter) (DevCon2008 [web-public])

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711amacleodAny update on the devcon "video". Has it been uploaded anywhere?9-Jan-09 4:57
710NickAHas a date/time been proposed?2-Jan-09 3:55
709TerryLet me know, I'll present Rockstar.1-Jan-09 6:20
708BrianHWith any luck the next online DevCon will have more preparation time. I look forward to your presentation, Terry :)31-Dec-08 18:50
707BrianHProps to Reichart and Chris for being able to pull something together on such short notice.31-Dec-08 18:48
706BrianHTerry, while acknowledging your tongue in cheek, this conference was a little last-minute and that limited the presenters somewhat :(31-Dec-08 18:47
705Pekrhmm, Qtask might be good name for REBOL too :-) But - that is not possible imo, as Qtask is legal entity, which will have its own business. And Qtask is also a product.31-Dec-08 7:56
704Terry(A little tongue in cheek there.. don't get too wound up)31-Dec-08 7:25
703TerryIn fact, I would change the name of Rebol to Qtask.31-Dec-08 7:24
702TerryI would rename DevCon to QtaskCon31-Dec-08 7:23
701PeterWoodIt's not just the money, it's also your time. it was extremely generous of you, Nick, and the others who helped with the organisation.30-Dec-08 8:21
700NickAJanko, I used bandwidth that was unused in my FMS account (actually paid extra to cover possible larger attendence, but it was unnecessary). An event like this could support 8x the number of people we saw for a total of about $30.30-Dec-08 7:37
699ReichartAlan, the stream has not "happened" yet. This is a stream that "will" happen in the future. In fact, this is one of my complaints of their UI. IT does not treat it like a "meeting"30-Dec-08 2:04
698amacleodReichart, I checked the link but it does not seem to run...30-Dec-08 1:10
697GiuseppeCWhat about registering the Virtual Devcon and the real ones and putting them on a YouTube channel ?30-Dec-08 0:09
696ReichartThis is a stream from a friend of mine

She is using UStream to do this. I'm going to play with this, but it "seems" sort of perfect for the Video part of what we are doing. you set your "Show time" and go!

But, I will only know after I have played with the incoing, and also tried broadcasting, and gotten feedback from a large group.

29-Dec-08 21:12
695amacleodHas the devcon been uploaded for viewing yet?29-Dec-08 15:33
694Jankosposor = sponsor .. I mean I guess setting up streaming probably wasn't free?29-Dec-08 14:09
693Jankowho did finance or sposor this conf now?29-Dec-08 12:20
692JankoI agree, this could also have different name than devcon... something more on the "easy" less official side, so potential presenters would not feel they can't present something more minor they are working on in short and maybe more would participate. something like virtual rebol gathering ... just thinking outloud29-Dec-08 12:18
691PekrWhat I would do though, is to distinguish the numbering of Devcons - I would not call it fourth devcon, but first virtual DevCon. OTOH even with "phasical" devcon, many ppl do attend virtually anyway. So what do you think about that?29-Dec-08 10:07
690GabrieleInstead of fixed dates, we could also adapt to presenters availability. ie., wait until there are a certain number of presenters, and then fix the date.29-Dec-08 10:04
689ReichartSunanda, agreed...

Basically there are for stream techs we need:

- Camera - Computer screen - Text - Audio.

All of this needs to be captured.

Text is still BEST in AltME, it was designed for this, this is also a way to bring people into the fold.

Computer and Camera are not the same concept, since video is fine at 320x250 (even if stretched), while Computer needs to be exact.

We still have some tweaking to do here, but this is coming together....

28-Dec-08 21:47
688?Or just MyDev.28-Dec-08 18:52
687?I suggest another addon to the Devcon site called MyDevCon where people can post their own videos of demostrations of their products. I know Graham has done video presentations of his efforts before. Would be nice to see how some of these projects work in the interim.28-Dec-08 18:51
686?I actually was capturing the output of yesterdays conference with my screen capture tools but my connectioin was bad because of the storms in the area and became so choppy that it was useless to me.28-Dec-08 18:49
685HenrikMy points:

- I enjoyed Reicharts talk. I found the format to be fine. We submit questions and he answers quickly. - For future eDevCons, keep them on fixed dates (+/- a week), 2 times a year with pre-announcements 2 months prior to the devcon. With fixed dates, people will be able to adjust to "the devcon season", and allow presenters to make some great presentations without hiccups. - Could RT "sponsor" a news item on for the date? - DevCon could also be for beginners. An expert could provide courses (although I don't know if that should be for free). This point may not be ideal to carry out in a devcon at this small scale.

28-Dec-08 17:15
684ChrisMay have slipped off on the 'Live' group, but Nick suggested a screen-capture-as-a-camera-source product for Linux and Windows (though I used a Mac for my presentation...)28-Dec-08 17:10
683SunandaThanks to everyone who made DevCon2008 a reality. **** A couple of follow-up points:

-- How about doing an eDevCon twice a year, whether or not there is a physical one too. -- And plenty more notice so some Devolunteers can help with with set-up and promotion.

-- Chris's presentation would have seriously benefited from some sort of screen reader / whiteboard system....A camera pointing at the screen was not ideal.

28-Dec-08 16:39
682ReichartYeah, it would be cool to build the list on your page so that we refer or copy over old stuff.28-Dec-08 2:54
681ChrisBtw: it seems that the url for the 2007 DevCon has changed. I'll try and keep pointed to the correct site...

Alternately, if whoever maintains the 2007 DevCon pages wishes me to host them under the above address, I'll be happy to...

28-Dec-08 1:54
680ChrisNote: is still editable by those that have registered. The auto redirection will turn off shortly and will point to the future.28-Dec-08 1:34
679ChrisI set aside too little time for this one (not intentionally), though not too bad for a rush job...28-Dec-08 1:31
678ChrisThere's a lot to that. I was kind of using the DevCon '05 as a model (my fav so far) where all the info is knee deep on the front page with more detail on sub pages.28-Dec-08 1:28
677ReichartChris, may I suggest we set up the wiki website such that at the top is a given even (Name + Date) and that everything else be put on one big page. This has a lot of advantages. This is not to say people can't put things on other pages, but if we do it this way, everything can be in one place. You come to the Home page, then click on the event you are interestested in, and that is it.28-Dec-08 0:54
676ReichartThe live group has been closed, and will reopen when we do another conference.28-Dec-08 0:51
675SunandaReichart says better for him to chat via altme.....either this group (which is public) or the private group. Other presenters may prefer other ways of interacting with them.27-Dec-08 20:09
674SunandaI'd think this is a better channel for the chat.....At least for the stuff you want published on the web.27-Dec-08 19:59
673?Were using the chat built into the website correct instead of ALTME?27-Dec-08 19:56
672ReichartAny reason not to?

If only I could figure out how to insert a carraige return after the image on teh front page in the reduced MakeDoc command set....

27-Dec-08 19:53
671NickAReichart, are you going to present first?27-Dec-08 19:50
670ReichartRobert, cehck out - 19:50
669NickAyes, devcon/devcon is user/pass27-Dec-08 19:49
668NickAThere was no formal registration this year - just the discussion here and an informal list at 19:49
667RobertSah by devcon/devcon you mena user/pwd27-Dec-08 19:49
666RobertSI am logged in at rebolconf.info27-Dec-08 19:48
665RobertSso where should I have registered?27-Dec-08 19:48
664NickA 19:47
663RobertSat which URL, please27-Dec-08 19:47
662NickARobertS, They're not tied together. Please use "devcon/devcon"27-Dec-08 19:46
661RobertSIncorrect Username/Password.27-Dec-08 19:46
660RobertS is exposing my password Not to mention rejecting it when I am already lgged in at Do I need a second login for that 'home' page security 'JOIN CONF' ??27-Dec-08 19:45
659Reichart(forgot how odd makedoc was).27-Dec-08 19:45
658ChrisIt's just a stripped down version of make doc.27-Dec-08 19:19
657?Chris, I would update it with that info but not sure how the snippet works.27-Dec-08 19:11
656?I never even knew there was checklists for REBCON until now. Thanks Reichart.27-Dec-08 19:06
655ReichartChris, if you click on my presentation, all my information is in there. Photo, Bio, Topic, and Description.27-Dec-08 19:06
654ReichartWhat schedule there is has always been here in AltME - REBOL3 - Checklist27-Dec-08 19:05
653?I put the link out there for where. I can't find the schedule anywhere.27-Dec-08 19:01
652ChrisA brief rundown of REBOL resources here: 18:59
651ChrisI need: short Bios on speakers: 18:57
650Chris 18:56
649ChrisI need, a Schedule.27-Dec-08 18:56
648ChrisI need: a countdown timer that sits in an external file, is invoked with startTimer('date and time string'); and changes the text content of <span id="counter">. That is all. Otherwise, no timer...27-Dec-08 18:55
647ChrisIt's above in this chat.27-Dec-08 18:54
646BrianHI don't know the url of the video conference. That is why I was looking at your site in the first place (though it's nice).27-Dec-08 18:53
645ChrisI am only working on the front page. All others need content.27-Dec-08 18:52
644ChrisPlease feel free to add!!!27-Dec-08 18:52
643BrianHNevermind, Reichart already mentioned that.27-Dec-08 18:47
642BrianHChris, your site also needs a link to the conference location, perhaps in the Where section.27-Dec-08 18:46
641?Sunanda, that looks like a nasty one.27-Dec-08 18:26
640ChrisI'm working as fast as I can with the info (still have a prez to write too).27-Dec-08 18:22
639ReichartMay I suggest that the following be added to the home page of website:

- Much bigger date and time. - Link to the video conference. - List of known speakers.

27-Dec-08 18:20
638ChrisSure, where's the code?27-Dec-08 18:18
637ReichartChris, it would be cool to add a count down timer on the website though, and easy to do...27-Dec-08 18:14
636Chris(not confused, just running late...)27-Dec-08 18:14
635ChrisOy, need to get a move on...27-Dec-08 18:13

At the bottom of the page it says "Current UTC (or GMT/Zulu)-time used: Saturday, December 27, 2008 at 18:12:34" (right now)

27-Dec-08 18:13
633Reichart(not much suprises me.............but it is interesting how some programmers get very confused by time offsets. I wonder if this is the same reason American's get confused by metric)27-Dec-08 18:10
632BrianHSorry, "we" is stretching it.27-Dec-08 18:09
631Reichart2h from now.27-Dec-08 18:09
630BrianHWe're in -6, so for us it starts at 2pm.27-Dec-08 18:09
629Pekryes, simple measure = at least 2 or 3 ppl here confused here, WHEN actually does the even start :-)27-Dec-08 18:08
628ReichartThis DevCon is going to be a DRY RUN (meaning, "let's learn").27-Dec-08 18:01
627Reichart"all those damned UTC, EST ... isn't there any simple measure for one's local time?"

Not to rag on you, but UTC "is" the simple measure...

27-Dec-08 17:58
626SunandaThis was about a mile from my home: 17:41
625?We had one years ago 25+ that put a foxphoto store in the middle of the street and didn't even spill the rolls of film from the shelves.27-Dec-08 17:23
624Willanother interesting live event 17:23
623?Was in one about 4 years ago that ripped the roof off the house across the street from us.27-Dec-08 17:22
622?Yes we get them often.27-Dec-08 17:22
621ChrisTornado alley...27-Dec-08 17:21
620HenrikPaul, is that near the tornado belt (or what you call it)?27-Dec-08 17:20
619?I think Gregg is in Missouri so he might already be getting some of the bad weather.27-Dec-08 17:10
618?Weather fronts cross each other here frequently. We get the most devestating whether it seems whenever we see a front drop straight down from Chicago. Those are very rare but it seems when they happen they leave destruction.27-Dec-08 17:09
617?Yes Henrik we get those alot here in Saint Louis.27-Dec-08 17:08
616ChrisEarly 20s to near freezing.27-Dec-08 17:00
615Henriksounds like drastic temperature change?27-Dec-08 16:53
614Janko(huh is for tornados)27-Dec-08 16:52
613Jankohuh.. what do you mean 70's and 30's ?27-Dec-08 16:52
612?Going to go from 70's to the 30's in a matter of an hour or so.from what I understand.27-Dec-08 16:32
611?Weather may impact my availability but I intend to attend. We are expecting Tornado's this afternoon in the midwest.27-Dec-08 16:32
610PekrHowever - the next real devcon is going to be in Prague, hopefully September 200927-Dec-08 16:31
609PekrI am not sure I will be able to make it. Some family duties aproaching. I wonder if there will be video-recorded session of this first virtual devcon? The beauty is, that we can have such devcons 4times a year, if we wish so ....27-Dec-08 16:31
608?i believe so.27-Dec-08 16:28
607JankoA little lower on the map.. Slovenia. Do we all (viewers) login with devcon u/p when the conf will start?27-Dec-08 16:26
606PekrAnd you, Janko?27-Dec-08 16:23
605?-6 here27-Dec-08 16:23
604PekrCzech Republic, timezone Prague ...27-Dec-08 16:23
603Jankook, thanks.. yes we are GMT + 1 too.. where are you from Pekr?27-Dec-08 16:22
602Pekryes, 21 hour here - GMT + 1 (UTC0100)27-Dec-08 16:19
601NickAIt's currently about 10:45am here in Eastern time, USA, and I'm planning of being at at 3pm (4 hours 15 minutes from now) - the Altme timestamp should help clear things up.27-Dec-08 15:44
600Sunanda<Stating 20:00 UTC is like saying nothing ...> Part of the idea behind ISO 8601 is that everyone should be able to convert their local time to UTC and vice versa. So times specified as UTC are unambiguous. Anything else, in an international context, is mis-interpretable. See you at DevCon!27-Dec-08 15:36
599?Anyone have all the connection details for todays conference?27-Dec-08 14:09
598Pekr - UTC = GMT .... there is a clock, which will show current time counter in relation to your timezone ...27-Dec-08 12:54
597Pekrah, finally something - 12:47
596Pekrthere should be time counter capability in calendar here, or something like that. Stating 20:00 UTC is like saying nothing ...27-Dec-08 12:46
595Henrikswatch internet time?27-Dec-08 12:41
594Pekrall those damned UTC, EST ... isn't there any simple measure for one's local time?27-Dec-08 12:00
593SunandaStart time is 20:00 UTC.27-Dec-08 9:34
592JankoCan somebody post here before the conf. starts because I am not 100% sure I got the EST time conversion to my timezone right. To my understanding it will start 10:30 hours from now.27-Dec-08 9:28
591ChrisPlease use your AltMe name to register.27-Dec-08 1:41
590ChrisI've set up a wiki at -- I'll leave it open for editing until the morning, after which only approved users may contribute. The design is not as intricate as I'd prefer -- it is what it is for now. Contributions use a slimmed-down make-doc format. Let me know of any problems...27-Dec-08 1:41
589ReichartRock'n24-Dec-08 18:58
588NickAEverything is now set up and ready to go.24-Dec-08 18:51
587ReichartAgreed!24-Dec-08 17:58
586NickAThanks Reichart :) Unless I hear differently, I'll reserve enough bandwitdh for 50 attendees to attend a 4 hour event, and enough storage space to record the whole thing. That should give us plenty of wiggle room.24-Dec-08 17:34
585ReichartI will take 2 hours, which includes me, and anyone else on my team.24-Dec-08 16:56
584NickAReichart, the page looks great :) I haven't heard from any other presenters, and do need to reserve bandwidth today. How long will you, Chris, and the Qtask team need? LAST CALL for presentations!24-Dec-08 13:41
583ReichartOK, I can chop up my art, and turn it into a syndicated Wiki, which we can then update quickly. But I need content:

t would be good to have:

- 3 items of news (Perhaps an update on R3, something about products that are being worked on, and something else)? - A list of speakers (is it really just Chris and me, and perhaps a couple of the Qtask team?) - List of when they want to talk - Exact sign up instructions

I can put this all together easily enough.

24-Dec-08 6:30
582ReichartI wlil be attacking the page soon (tonight).24-Dec-08 5:57
581NickAyeksoon, I added you to the list at . The event will take place at 3pm EST, December 27th, at . user/pass is devcon/devcon - just pop in, watch, and take part ... see you then!24-Dec-08 5:39
580NickAjames_nak, I think I've gotten everyone, but no additonal presenters.24-Dec-08 5:36
579yeksoonlate to the party.

so, where to I go to sign up to join the DevCon? Or do I just pop into some web site and view the presentation?

24-Dec-08 3:35
578Janko@NickA - thanks for ading me to the list, I already reserver time on 27. :)23-Dec-08 23:47
577james_nakNick, have we got all the folks that have been answering on mailist signed up?23-Dec-08 23:28
576james_nakDo we have anyone who could represent 3.0?23-Dec-08 23:24
575SunandaI've put an announcement on, but the link is not to the geatest place in the world for follow up....Have we got a better page to point it to? 20:33
574NickAOops, and Chris, presenting about QuarterMaster - lots of "Q"s :)23-Dec-08 8:01
573NickAReichart, at this point, the only presenters that I'm aware of are those from Qtask, listed in the email at . Is there more discussion anywhere else about topics/presenters that I've missed?23-Dec-08 7:00
572NickAJust click the "Broadcast (presenters only)" link to try it out...23-Dec-08 6:52
571NickAThe broadcast room is currently available for any presenter to prepare and become familiar with the interface. If anyone would like would like to practice, or if anyone needs help preparing, I have free time available throughout the week. You're welcome to freely enter and use the broadcast room - please just close the broadcast page completely when you're done practicing.23-Dec-08 6:48
570NickAWe've got 23 signed up right now. I'm more concerned about the length of time at this point. I'm going to reserve many potential connections...23-Dec-08 6:45
569Reichart(less than 20)23-Dec-08 6:44
568ReichartNick, tomorrow I will help push a final call for everyone. I guess right now this will be on the small side.23-Dec-08 6:43
567NickAI do need a final list, by Wednesday, of all presenters, along with an estimate of the amount of time required for each presentation. If any presenter has a particular requirement for when in the order their presentation needs to take place, please let me know. This must to be finalized now so that I can reserve necessary bandwitdh for the event. Thanks!23-Dec-08 6:41
566NickAHi Janko and RobertS :) I added your names to the list of attendees. The event will take place at 3pm EST December 27th, at . As stated, user/pass is devcon/devcon (those pages will all be deleted after the event, and I'll be monitoring to kick/ban unwanted visitors from any of the chat/audio/video communications as needed, so that first line of security is not a big concern - it's primarily just to deter random lookee-loos :)23-Dec-08 6:35
565JankoThanks Sunanda, looks good and functional. I would be very interested in attending the devcon as a viewer, at what time will this be going on? I looked at past chat but didn't notice it.22-Dec-08 21:37
564SunandaThat sounds good Reichart....Let nick get on with building the conference rooms while the pre-gathering momentum gathers elsewhere.22-Dec-08 20:30
563ReichartWe really need a place we can send everyone. I'm going to vote a public Wiki, but if no one steps forward with that...then I will simply take the art I made, make a Wik on Qtask out of that, and sydicate it (make it public).

Anyone in the REBOL DevCon project in Qtask can edit it...

22-Dec-08 20:27
562SunandaGood point......I think Nick is aware of that in this case....He's publicised those details here and on the Mailing List. I am sure a securer sign-up will be needed once the room is in active use.22-Dec-08 19:49
561BrianHSunanda, this is still a web-public group. Every time you post a username and password here it may need to be changed.22-Dec-08 19:47
560SunandaWelcome, Janko. The current look'n'feel is here --- use username: devcon password: devcon 19:02
559Jankois there any website with more info maybe?22-Dec-08 18:45
558Jankowhat will be this like, if I can ask.. I am new around here22-Dec-08 18:44
557RobertSlooking forward to Dec 2722-Dec-08 18:07
556MaartenI'd just do it on Dec 27th. Learn, repeat.22-Dec-08 8:57

I'm open to. My goal is to get some of the Qtask team to be present for a simple and real time Question and Answer session. As you saw from the number Sunanda's source code counter showed, Qtask is a GIANT REBOL program.

It may not be the best or the smartest code in the world, but we have learned a lot, and would like to share some of it.

20-Dec-08 21:33
554NickAWith that said, if the concensus is to move the date, I'm fine with that too :) If it helps to organize things, anyone can add _potential_ dates at - just click the "add new event" link at the top of the page.20-Dec-08 21:16
553NickAI'm completely open to whatever the community decides to do :) It's probably not such a bad thing to keep this first presentation smallish, and to consider it a learning experience. One thing that's clear so far is that it'd be good to decide on one or several people to manage operations officially, and to create a web site to organize future events. For the time being, this event does appear to be shaping up well, for the short matter of days we've spent contemplating it :) There are 19 live attendees signed up at . We appear to have a viable way to make the presentation, and I'm looking forward to seeing anyone who has the time and motivation to speak about REBOL related topics :)20-Dec-08 21:13
552ReichartAgreed...20-Dec-08 19:45
551Henrikfixed times a year, so people can get used to the schedule.20-Dec-08 18:58
550HenrikThen a conference once every 3 or 6 months.20-Dec-08 18:58
549ReichartI think we will have a small turn out (less than 20) right now.........but this could be a GOOD thing, in that if we do this, then we will learn! And then doing it AGAIN is easier.20-Dec-08 18:35
548ReichartAgreed.20-Dec-08 18:31
547BrockI really like the idea of the virtual DevCon. It would be neat if we could then build ourselves a site similar to this Microsoft's LEARN site. 18:29
546SunandaThe checklist was put up, with a request for people to add their preferred dates. Not many of us did, and 27-dec was the favorite from a very short list. I think now it'd be Nick's decision if he wanted to throw the date back into the open. Any of us could of course start the hunt for an eDevCon date in 2009.20-Dec-08 18:28
545BrockIf we try to make this a bi-yearly event, atleast one virtual and another live event (or both virtual), it might make it better suited for people to prepare for and show some of their recent work, finished or not. The talks don't have to be major pieces or an hour plus in length, but could simply demonstrate a concept of interest to a group of newbies or some of the advanced rebolers, 15 - 30 minutes. I'd really like to see some simple demos of Max's work and Oldes Flash dialectt o see these tools "make a difference", not to mention countless others.20-Dec-08 18:24
544BrockThe only draw-back is that 2008 is missed. If this works well, I would rather put 2008-2009, then have another one later in 2009.20-Dec-08 18:14
543ReichartYou guys may have missed it, there is already a way to vote. Which is in the checklist here. Post the best day and worse day(s). I think moving it out a little might be a good idea for a few reasons, not the least is that "2009" on the page will make it "current" for 12 months!20-Dec-08 18:01
542Brock... with an option for anyone to suggest another date. I didn't, and things just started falling into place. There will always be someone who isn't going to like the date and will have to miss. The only reason I bring it up now is that it's pretty obvious that this is not an IDEAL time for a larger number than any non-holiday weekend.20-Dec-08 17:48
541BrockI feel bad as there was a list setup asking when it should be. However the only real date provided was the 27th.20-Dec-08 17:46
540GeomolAssuming the people setting this up are available first week-end of januar.20-Dec-08 17:14
539GeomolMaybe we should vote somehow?20-Dec-08 17:12
538BrockJust something to consider. I'd really love to be involved in the 'live' event rather than the recordings.20-Dec-08 15:50
537BrockNot to screw things up, but Is there any benefit to do this maybe the first weekend of January rather than between the holiday period? With people hosting family or travelling to family this is not only going to limit the live viewers, but also the people available to present. I see others already mention not being available, and as it is I will be between sporting events as my kids are in tournaments over the holidays.20-Dec-08 15:49
536NickANow is the time for presenters to please let me know of plans to present. I'm reserving a special amount of bandwidth for the event, so want to get as close an estimate as possible. Even a few hours of constantly streaming video, to many viewers, ends up being hundreds of gigs, so I'm hoping to estimate the presentation times as closely as possible. Thanks!20-Dec-08 14:57
535NickAMaarten - we'll get recordings :) Geomol - glad you're gonna make it :)20-Dec-08 14:50
534GeomolNick, thanks for adding me to 13:10
533MaartenI am at my parent's (or stated different: travelling back from my parents') on dec 27th because they are taking all their grandchildren to a play. So I might be there only partiall, or not at all. I will do my best to make it though. Maybe I can lure the wife in picking up the kids but she is in all kinds of end-of-years trading markets selling this time of year.20-Dec-08 9:20
532ReichartSafari and Chrome are not supported yes. Soon. We are indeed activily wrapping that up.20-Dec-08 4:08
531amacleodand what's the deal with it not allowing chrome as the browser?20-Dec-08 3:18
530amacleoddid that but I will try again20-Dec-08 3:17
529BrockYou need to be logged in, then paste the link in your browser or click on it here.20-Dec-08 1:10
528amacleodReichart, I'm getting the same "iI'm sorry, you seem to be attempting to access a file to which you do not have permission to access" I have an account already...20-Dec-08 0:56
527james_nakYes, very conference-like and it screams (in a nice way) fun fun fun, come play with us! Qtask is getting better and better it appears.19-Dec-08 21:22
526ReichartI like the idea of the rubber earth, and the pixelate grate on the upper left (very "conference-ee")19-Dec-08 21:09
525ReichartAll are welcome to change or fix though...19-Dec-08 21:08
524Reichartight = might.19-Dec-08 21:08
523ReichartThanks, Chris is more talented than me, he ight take a swipe at it. I think this one is a little too "blocky" and a bit childlike. But it might be a good start, and it is designed to be SUPER simple to build as a site, with nothing but flat HTML files. In fact, I could build this out of just several Wikis.19-Dec-08 21:07
522james_nakReichart, nice looking page.19-Dec-08 20:55
521ReichartPost a private message to me with your Email, then you have access to all sorts of other features too.19-Dec-08 17:15
520NickAReichart, no I'm not yet...19-Dec-08 17:14
519NickASunanda, thanks for the post :) You'll be at the event, correct?19-Dec-08 17:14
518ReichartIt is like asking if you are a member of 0. AltME - 1. REBOL3 - 2. GroupName (where 0. Browser 1. Qtask 2. REBOL-SIG)19-Dec-08 17:13
517NickAAmacleod, as it stands, I've taken the screen grab app out of the presentation setup. It was a Windows only solution that seemed to add potential complexity. It appears that the best solution is to prepare screen shots beforehand, and upload the images to the file area. Of course, screen shots could also be uploaded to that same area in real time... If any presenter needs help with that part of the presentation, or if that solution will not work for anyone, please let me know. I also have a whiteboard app installed at . I haven't used that application much more than just to try that it's installed properly, but I'm happy to add it to the setup if anyone wants to use it for the presentation.19-Dec-08 17:13
516ReichartAnd a Member of REBOL SIG?19-Dec-08 17:12
515ReichartNick, are you a member of Qtask?19-Dec-08 17:12
514SunandaNickA:<...are there any other lists here on Altme or elsewhere that I should be checking?> I've posted an announcement on REBOLTalk. If there is any comments / questions there, I'll prod you.,2728.0.html19-Dec-08 17:00
513NickAReichart, I received an error page "I'm sorry, you seem to be attempting to access a file to which you do not have permission to access"19-Dec-08 16:53
512NickAPekr, I did post here and the mailing list. The whole idea of the virtual DevCon evolved quickly and informally, so I apologise if it's been confusing. Since the idea was suggested very near the proposed DevCon date, I tried to help organize things a bit at , but my efforts have been personal and not necessarily agreed upon by any of the community. We probably should have appointed an official group of organizers and created a web site first, but in the interest of trying to things done, I just moved ahead and posted my suggestions here and on the mailing list - I hope there've been no disagreements or concerns about any of that. DideC, as it stands, my intention is to make 100-150 connections available to . At this point, it seams reasonable to leave it open - if anyone thinks we should expect more than 100 people, then I'll need to know soon. I'd appreciate a head count of people in the French community who plan to attend. Amacleod, the broadcast system at seems to be the best available solution. I'm leaving that room available until the event, so that presenters can become familiar with it. To make it easier for others to use the system, please remember to close the broadcast page when you're done using it, and please try to conserve bandwidth to only what's necessary to become familiar and comfortable with the system. Please let me know if you have any questions!19-Dec-08 16:50
511ReichartOK...I knocked out a very quick mock up of a DevCon page that should work. The logic is, everything on the main page, but if you want the details, you can drill in one more level. (if you need a membership to Qtask, just post to me your email)

19-Dec-08 16:48
510Reichartcool.19-Dec-08 15:15
509ReichartCoo.19-Dec-08 15:15
508PekrI will soon have 30Mbit of spare throughput on our site. However, I am not ready with my new server yet. Need to buy machine, install vmware esxi, install linux. So, in future, yes, not now ...19-Dec-08 15:13
507ReichartMy request for whom ever hosts the page is that they "think" they can keep the page in place for a long time in the future. My hope is to eventually get all these devcon pages over to one place for historical reasons.19-Dec-08 15:11
506Pekrvery fair offer ...19-Dec-08 15:09
505ReichartOnce the webpage is up, then we can point everyone to one place, and quickly update it until it all makes sense.19-Dec-08 14:48
504ReichartGuys, this is why I want to put up a webpage. I think in the spirit of crowd sources, no one person should be expected to do more than one thing.

Nick, don't worry about the webpage, Gab, or someone will host. Chris, or I, or someone will do the art and design. etc.

I plan to pound on this tomorrow in fact. There are no egos here...who ever can help or do the best job, step up.

19-Dec-08 14:46
503amacleodIs there a tool to demo an app so everyone can see it? (like remote desktop or "go to meeting"). I understand there will be video and audio and chat, screen grab and display. Anything I missed?19-Dec-08 14:33
502PekrI even don't know, how I registered myself. Registration is kind of confusing. If I would not found ML message (or was it on AltME?) about user: devcon, pass: devcon, I would not know, how to "log in". But - system seems to recognise me, so maybe it uses cookies to further identify particular users?19-Dec-08 14:10
501DideCSorry if it was answered before, but does the meeting will be available to unregistered user (publicly available) or registration is a requirement to see it ?19-Dec-08 13:59
500NickAIf you're presenting, screenshots and any other files that you want to make available can be uploaded to the file area at . I also prepared a temporary ftp account to help upload multiple files - same username and pass. Please let me know if you have any questions!19-Dec-08 12:57
499NickAReichart, I'll be happy to put up a page about devcon 2008, and afterward host any recordings that get made. My design skills are terrible, though, so if anyone wants to prepare a nice looking layout, it'll surely look better than anything I come up with...19-Dec-08 12:13
498NickAThe next step should probably be organizing presentation times and topics. I've only seen the names posted on the mailing list ( 12:06
497NickAJohn and Brian, I didn't see your names on the list at, so I took the liberty of adding you, along with others who've specifically stated they'd attend. Aside from the mailing list, are there any other lists here on Altme or elsewhere that I should be checking?19-Dec-08 11:59
496james_nakNot to confuse anyone but Nick has set up a better signup procedure at . Thanks to Geomol, Reichart and Btiffin for putting their names on the checklist. I think we're still waiting for a 3.0 Presenter.19-Dec-08 0:07
495btiffinSigned up; but I'll only be lurking.18-Dec-08 23:15
494GeomolNickA, I signed up.18-Dec-08 22:34
493MaartenAnd post all the vidoes to youtube, if possible18-Dec-08 22:03
492ReichartEven though this is a virtual DevCon (DevVerCon), we should treat it like a full DevCon, with a page for people, like this

REBOL DevVerCon 2008 REBOL DevCon (virtual) 20008 REBOL Devcon 2008 (World wide virtual attendance)

18-Dec-08 21:35
491NickAThanks Paul :) Just to be clear, I need to plan on enough connections, including for those who are just watching.18-Dec-08 21:07
490?NickA, I plan on attending.18-Dec-08 20:33
489NickAMy FMS server is hosted, so I need to prepare for the event by ensuring enough connections, bandwidth, and storage space reserved on the server. I currently have a 40 connection limit, but it's no problem to raise that as high as needed - I just need to do it soon. I'd appreciate some help getting a concensus of the number of people to expect. Right now 4 people are signed up at for December 27th, 3pm EST. Is that when we've decided to hold the event? We had an additional 10 people signed up for yesterday's prep meeting, and 16 people came to visit. Signing up at would help me get a better estimate. I could set up a registration process and hand out unique user/pass combinations, but would prefer to leave it as open as possible for those interested to just join in... If anyone has ideas about how to estimate a head count, I'd appreciate any suggestions. Thanks!18-Dec-08 20:30
488ReichartYes, better...neeeds Helv font everywhere.18-Dec-08 10:34
487SunandaLooked good on a quick try out. Goodnight!18-Dec-08 9:00
486PekrLooks much better now ...18-Dec-08 9:00
485NickAPlease try it out and lemme know!18-Dec-08 8:47
484NickAwith file area -> with file upload18-Dec-08 8:46
483NickAThis has broadcast area on the left (comfortably fits 640x480), text chat on right - with name login (and private text/video/audio chat between any audience members), links include a file area, with file area, and a separate text/video/audio room for random group discussions. According to today's activities, this should satisfy our needs.18-Dec-08 8:45
482NickA 8:40
480Maarten"Failure to correctly recognize causality is the root of most failures of perception." I am going to translate that in 37 languages and sell T-shirts.18-Dec-08 7:24
479Reichart:)18-Dec-08 0:25
478BrianHAs Reichart can tell you, my standards for "social" might be a little much...18-Dec-08 0:15
477ReichartI talk to Gab almost every day....and to Richard several times a week....Gab is actually very "social", but only in small groups.18-Dec-08 0:14
476?I had seen pictures of him from devcon past.18-Dec-08 0:09
475?Good to see him on camera today.18-Dec-08 0:09
474GrahamI see Gab here most days .. he just doesn't post unless he has something to say18-Dec-08 0:04
473BrianHGabriele and Cyphre aren't very social.17-Dec-08 23:48
472ReichartFailure to correctly recognize causality is the root of most failures of perception.17-Dec-08 23:45
471PekrQtask is their primary work, no? I am not accusing Qtask of anything, just that it is a primary job, which keeps guys busy. It is not only about REBOL, but those guys vanished from public REBOL life almost altogether. Can't remember Cyphre's post here, or to ML, Gabriele is here sporadically too.17-Dec-08 23:44
470BrianHIn person :)17-Dec-08 23:44
469ReichartPekr, I know you keep pounding on this, but you a really wrong here... Brian knows my stance on REBOL, and can attest to this.17-Dec-08 23:43
468BrianHYou can't expect everything to be done at once. Right now we are focusing on what needs to be done for a developer release. The rest can be put off until after that release. It's triage.17-Dec-08 23:42
467ReichartGab not working on REBOL has NOTHING to do with Qtask (but they can speak up for themselves.)17-Dec-08 23:42
466ReichartRichard not working on REBOL has NOTHING to do with Qtask.17-Dec-08 23:42
465PekrI thought he is. So my apologies to Reichart.17-Dec-08 23:42
464ReichartAnton does not work for Qtask.17-Dec-08 23:41
463PekrOK, I give up. I am in waiting mode, studying new GUI, in order to be able to catch few bugs for Carl. I reall wish host codes would be uploaded, so those of us interested, could start porting efforts to Os-X, Linux, Win Mobile ... and plug-in :-)17-Dec-08 23:41
462BrianHWe are now in the accumulation phase of that, I believe.17-Dec-08 23:39
461BrianHCyphre's work on REBOL is paid work, and they tend to accumulate a whole batch of fixes for him to do in one job.17-Dec-08 23:39
460PekrBrian - I know what you do. What I mean by R3 core work is really a low level work - finish Unicode, finish modules, finish plug-ins, finish tasking, etc., so that projects like Cheyenne (which could turn in kind of killer app for REBOL) can proceed (move to R3).17-Dec-08 23:38
459BrianH(which I will get back to more next week)17-Dec-08 23:37
458PekrI hope that Reichart takes what I will say now easy, as it is just my pov, but while Qtask give real work to some of REBOL guys, which is really cool, it might be also the cause why some top guys vanished. How often Cyphre, Gabriele, Anton, are here? Cyphre did not touch View for 8 or more months? Some things are not still finished. It is two sided sword.17-Dec-08 23:37
457BrianHAnd I am the DevBase project lead.17-Dec-08 23:36
456BrianHI also test and initiate Core native enhancements, backport changes to R2, refine the language design with Carl, ...17-Dec-08 23:35
455PekrWe must be really in strange situation, when Carl invites someone like me (which I call a mistake :-) to r3-gui, to actually get some real feedback!17-Dec-08 23:35
454PekrBrianH: I am so serious about REBOL, that I almost can't bear, how this whole project is treated :-) What you do is cool. YOU are the top guru in our community nowadays, as Ladislav is not here. You mostly patch Core mezzanines, no? I try to urge Carl to get to the point of release, where sources are put into DevBase. I am also not much satisfied with r3-gui world - while top REBOL coders are there, they mostly don't contribute, they rather chat here ;-)17-Dec-08 23:34
453ReichartI have a FAQ, it is a Wiki. I'm turning much of it into a set of joke or not, good idea. We need a wiki for everything!17-Dec-08 23:32
452ReichartPekr, shame you view this as one or the other. I hope one day to have one dialect that outputs REBOL view and an AJAX like framework.17-Dec-08 23:32
451BrianHThe 901 has a 4.5 to 8 hour battery, no kidding.17-Dec-08 23:32
450Grahamit was a joke ...17-Dec-08 23:31
449BrianHI have done so this week, even. No GUI work whatsoever.17-Dec-08 23:31
448Grahamthe 901 has bluetooth and a 4 hour battery so that's a plus17-Dec-08 23:31
447ReichartWhere is Graham's FAQ?17-Dec-08 23:31
446BrianHPekr, you are right. This week I am mostly working on Qtask work. However, my role in the R3 GUI project has been to do Core work.17-Dec-08 23:31
445GrahamI've already got an Acer aspire one . but my wife has taken it :(17-Dec-08 23:30
444BrianH2 SSDs in the 901, one soldered in, one internal plugin. Plus a SD card slot.17-Dec-08 23:29
443Grahamthe ssd is a plugin card I believe17-Dec-08 23:29
442PekrBrianH - no, you are not.17-Dec-08 23:28
441GrahamI bought a 901 1Gb 20b linux yesterday17-Dec-08 23:28
440BrianHSpeak for yourself. I am doing Core work.17-Dec-08 23:28
439GeomolNice!17-Dec-08 23:28
438GrahamFixed ... Altme now uses Chrome ... can we put this in the Graham's FAQ ?17-Dec-08 23:28
437PekrWell, if 90% of the community thinks though, that View is not needed or can't compete (with Carl's aproach, I am starting to lose confidence in REBOL altogether), then we should tell Carl, because nearly for one year, he is dedicating mostly to graphics, while the rest would probably prefer Core work being done.17-Dec-08 23:27
436BrianHThis cost me $350 in a Black Friday sale - any more and I wouldn't have been able to buy it at all. I really like the battery life though - I never have to turn it off, just suspend. This model has much better battery life than the larger alternatives. Plus, I find the limitations helpful for my job, particularly the testing phase.17-Dec-08 23:27
435PekrReichart - some of us try to ignore HMTL side of equation altogethere. Remember, like with Amiga, I try to breath pure REBOL life to the last death. REBOL is not business for me. Hence the reluctancy to accept status quo. This web thing is really so shitty after 20 years, patches upon patches of layers, that it is no more funny. Where's your web "standards" without JS nowadays?17-Dec-08 23:25
434ReichartBrian...SSD yeah...the last BATCH of cards I got failed.17-Dec-08 23:24
433PekrBrianH: if you need more, the question is, if it is right device for you? There are 12" machines, which are much more powerfull, yet not-that-big. But even netbooks are getting better. Intell needs to get rid of their crappy chipset. Nvidia is doing some cool work here, as well as S3, and even ATI. Dual Core Atoms are coming soon too ...17-Dec-08 23:23
432BrianHIf you enable virtual memory on a SSD, you can count the life of the SSD in months on one hand.17-Dec-08 23:23
431ReichartOne day, if we all work together, then perhaps we can all have the best of all worlds...17-Dec-08 23:23
430ReichartQtask (for exmaple) supports ALL browser, since is simplly HTML. Qtask did some tricky things with JavaScript to control tables, which is why Safari and Chrome fail. We should have this fixed by the end of this month. It is a small set of fixes. So we then will support all browsers.

But still I woudl build a custom version of Chrome to do some "extra" tricks. We also plan to support Flash plug ins, for audio support, etc. These are all extras.

I love your "killing REBOL schtick" .

REBOL is a language, the x-internet concept is one of the many cool things about it. BUT, for now, I'm going to keep my marraige in place between REBOL + HTML + JAVASCRIPT.

17-Dec-08 23:22
429PekrBrianH? Why without virtual memory? Hmm, so SSD disk version does not support it? EeePC 10xx has normal 2.5HD. I would expect virtual memory is utilised with such devices? Well, anyway - felt OK for the weekend I had it in my hands ... but just altme, word processing, browsing on my side ...17-Dec-08 23:22
428GeomolOnly 1 GB!?? Remember when whole harddisk partitions were 32 MB? ;-)17-Dec-08 23:22
427BrianHIf you haven't run into the memory limits, you aren't really using it that much.17-Dec-08 23:21
426BrianHRemember, that 1GB of RAM is with 0 MB of virtual memory - 1 GB is all you get.17-Dec-08 23:20
425PekrReichart - of course - I will be last turning off the lights from REBOL. Every support for web crap is good for your business, but is killing REBOL day by day.17-Dec-08 23:20
424PekrOffline mode - interesting. I studied it a bit, because we needed off-line client for CRM, but along with data. We found some FF framework, but it is not W3C standard (yet).17-Dec-08 23:19
423BrianHI have the same netbook, but I have more other stuff running on it so I have to count my MBs.17-Dec-08 23:19
422ReichartPekr, your anti-web stance is...uh...a little out dated. no?17-Dec-08 23:18
421ReichartFor example, you can program Chrome to hold the contents of HTTPS between sessions, which FF does not do. Sure, you can change settings, but giving people a single "thing" that does it correctly works for me.17-Dec-08 23:18
420PekrBrianH - what is your netbook? I tested EeePC 901 with 1GB RAM - was enough :-)17-Dec-08 23:17
419BrianHYes. Chrome uses much less RAM than FF 3.x or IE.17-Dec-08 23:17
418Reichartmore = mode.17-Dec-08 23:17
417ReichartPekr, I think you jumped to a conclusion. It is not that one needs to release their own browser, but rather that you can do some fun skinning, and also offline more, which all browsers don't support yet.17-Dec-08 23:17
416Pekrtoo much RAM? For FF 3.x?17-Dec-08 23:16
415BrianHAnd then I still wouldn't be able to use it on this computer - too much RAM and screen space.17-Dec-08 23:16
414Pekrbtw - FF should get new JS engine - SpiderMonkey or something like that, for 3.1, which is coming in few months ....17-Dec-08 23:15
413BrianHReichart, I would be happy if the regular Qtask worked better with Chrome - it's the only site I frequent that needs another browser.17-Dec-08 23:14
412Pekrhaha, now you make me laugh, Reichart. So in order to get web crap really work for you, one has to release its own browser? Come on :-)17-Dec-08 23:14

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